How Tradition Blinds Us to Truth

©2004 by OAIM

Please note that this is an actual conversation. The name of the person and any identifying factors have been changed to protect their identity. This conversation took place in an open chat room. Other people's comments that had nothing to do with this conversation have been deleted. This is not at all an uncommon conversation with people in chat rooms. We must be careful to examine our traditions in the light of biblical truth.

ChurchOfChristfan says, I think the problem isn't with the churches of Christ -- it's with the other churches who think we're stupwe're supid or narrowminded
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, COC, I love to hear acappella music, but if it's forced then it is not biblical...I mean, if they say you can ONLY sing that way or you are not being biblical, then they themselves are being unbiblical.
ChurchOfChristfan says, my church acknowledges that it is a PREFERENCE we hold
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Oh, I don't think that COC, I have other issues other than the musical instrument department
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But how do they treat people who believe otherwise, COC?
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Like salvation through water baptism
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Do they look at them as "less" spiritu?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, spiritual
ChurchOfChristfan says, actually, chalk....no, we don't
ChurchOfChristfan says, the preference of music we hold gives no judgment on others who think differently
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, okay, that's good.....the ones I've been to did look at them that way.
ChurchOfChristfan says, my friend grew up in my church......and expected all church of Christ to be like us.
ChurchOfChristfan says, he went off to college and ended up at a place where they said hi to his father, but not his mother
ChurchOfChristfan says, and the women were silent
ChurchOfChristfan says, but for the majority -- at least,the bigger churches of Christ, it's not like that.
ChurchOfChristfan says, that's more of the country, rinky-dink, conservationalist churches
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Night all.
ParepidemosOAMpastor leaves
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The churches of Christ I knew had no problems with instruments....but they still believed that you lost your salvation every time you sinned.
ChurchOfChristfan says, WHAT?!?!?! That's not in our doctrine/basic beliefs AT ALL
ChurchOfChristfan says, I have never heard that at ANY of the CoC's I've been to
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Hmmm....interesting.....
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Do they believe that you have to be baptized to be save?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, saved?
ChurchOfChristfan says, yes.
ChurchOfChristfan says, once. and only once.
ChurchOfChristfan says, well...
ChurchOfChristfan says, let me take that back
ChurchOfChristfan says, we believe you don't HAVE to...like...that's not what saves you.
ChurchOfChristfan says, but still....only once.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Yes, but what happens when you sin? Are you still saved?
ChurchOfChristfan says, once you have it, it is yours.
ChurchOfChristfan says, once you accept it, it's yours.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Okay. As I said before, the term "Church of Christ" has many meanings. There is not only one doctrinal stance.
ChurchOfChristfan says, there is the church of Christ...and the Church of Christ.
ChurchOfChristfan says, the capital C makes all the difference
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, I am talking about Church of Christ too.
ChurchOfChristfan says, there is, however, something psychological to be said for acapella worship
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, yeah....well.....there is something comforting to me in instrumental music.
ChurchOfChristfan says, yeah...i understand that, too
ChurchOfChristfan says, I went to an instrumental Wesleyan church when I started my search for God
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I don't see any biblical precedence for non-instrumentalism.....there are tons of instruments in the Bible.
ChurchOfChristfan says, and I just find so much more for me in the acapella music
ChurchOfChristfan says, the Biblical basis we originally held it to was the fact that each man should make a song to God in his heart/Spirit
ChurchOfChristfan says, it's commonly believed that everyone has a voice, but not everyone can play an instrument.
ChurchOfChristfan says, and I agree with that.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Have you read the Psalms? Why should it be that they used instruments all the time there?
ChurchOfChristfan says, when there's people playing the piano or guitar or drums -- the focus gets taken off of God if they mess up or if they play well.
ChurchOfChristfan says, but that's just me
ChurchOfChristfan says, yes, I've read the Psalms.
ChurchOfChristfan says, and if you wanna play an instrument when it's you and God, I say go for it.
ChurchOfChristfan says, other than that, the other OT references are to bands for battles or military uses
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But the problem I have is when a church puts limits on what is and what isn't acceptable, only according to their preferences in such an area.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, In regards to messing up....oh, my, but have you ever really heard SOME people sing???
ChurchOfChristfan says, yes, and it's beautiful
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, People might all have voices, but some of them were just not given a gift of singing!
ChurchOfChristfan says, several years ago, the CoC put out a pamphlet about why we do our music this way
ChurchOfChristfan says, and it was VERY scripture based. And I wish I could remember it
ChurchOfChristfan says, it had a lot of really good points and the Word to back it up
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I've seen the arguments, and I'm not at all convinced. It's someone's opinion and it tends towards the rulings that Pharisees made for people to keep up so they looked more "religious"
ChurchOfChristfan says, let me tell ya' somethin -- EVERYTHING is someone's opinion
ChurchOfChristfan says, your preference for instruments is just as easily backed up and negated byt he Bible as our preference for acapella
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Nope, there are some things that are biblical. And just because they use Bible verses does not mean their argument is biblically solid.
ChurchOfChristfan says, your preference is just as much someon'es opinion as our preference
ChurchOfChristfan says, see? you're saying these things about my style of church, but neglecting to say them about your own.
ChurchOfChristfan says, it's all the same -- whoever started it had their ideas.
ChurchOfChristfan says, that's how we got where we are today
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, what I'm saying is that I've examined both sides of the discussion and I believe the more biblical path is to equally accept both instrumental and acappella instead of pushing one aside.
ChurchOfChristfan says, and...we equally accept both of them
ChurchOfChristfan says, while, I might add, most instrumental churches (as demonstrated here tonight) use our musical preference against us
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So, if someone comes into your church and would play an instrumental piece, are you saying people in your church would not be offended?
ChurchOfChristfan says, well, it would depend. on a Sunday morning, people would be offended because it's a violation of our agreements.
ChurchOfChristfan says, but it's only in the same way that people are offended if someone breaks a contract
ChurchOfChristfan says, if we hosted a concert or had a praise band on a Saturday night, people would most likely not be offended.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But see, if someone came into my church on Sunday morning and sang acappella, nobody would be offended.
ChurchOfChristfan says, but that's different
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, What you are saying is that it is offensive to your people to have instrumental music during a Sunday morning service...and that is more "biblical" than a church that is willing to accept either instrumental or acapella in a morning service?
ChurchOfChristfan says, I never said it was more biblical
ChurchOfChristfan says, you're the one arguing biblical
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Then why would people be offended if it's not a biblical issue?
ChurchOfChristfan says, and if our church were to say "we know you prefer this, but we're going to violate your free will to choose by having this type of performance" people would be mad
ChurchOfChristfan says, it's like breaking a contract
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But if it's a contract that has no biblical validity, should it really be valid?
ChurchOfChristfan says, yes
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Are you familiar with the term "legalism"?
ChurchOfChristfan says, if i make a contract to sell a house, is it not valid cuz it has no Biblical validity?
ChurchOfChristfan says, it's a preference. your instruments are a PREFERENCE.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, We're not talking about a house, but we're talking about God's people. He sets the rules, not us.
ChurchOfChristfan says, yes He does
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, And our preferences should line up to what He says, not the other way around.
ChurchOfChristfan says, yes, i agree
ChurchOfChristfan says, that is why....both of our preferences, mine and yours, are acceptable
ChurchOfChristfan says, because NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES GOD EITHER CONDONE OR CONDEMN EITHER STYLE OF WORSHIP
ChurchOfChristfan says, so you're arguing preference with me, andtrying to pull this holier-than-thou thing you got goin' on. and I'm just presenting facts. You are attacking me, my faith, and my church.
ChurchOfChristfan says, therefore, which one of us is really interested in what the Bible is saying?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, See, I disagree. In my study, I see instrumental music integrally connected to worship.
ChurchOfChristfan says, you see it that way because that's how you WANT to see it
ChurchOfChristfan says, if you researched it from the other angle, you would see it differently
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, I"ve actually done the time for the study.
ChurchOfChristfan says, and if you researched it unbiasedly, then you would see it as neutral issue
ChurchOfChristfan says, me too
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But I would venture to guess you've not studied the other side of it.
ChurchOfChristfan says, i have a passion for music
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Obviously you've not. There are no biblical reasons for non-instrumental. Period. There is nothing.
ChurchOfChristfan says, yes there are
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, show me.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Chapter and verse.
ChurchOfChristfan says, and by even saying that, you're saying "I am close-minded and will not believe you. I have made my decision, and I am right"
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Let's put the cards on the table and see who can give more proof.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Nope, I'm saying let's look at the biblical evidence.
ChurchOfChristfan says, that is childish
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you can show me good biblical reasons for your stance, I will gladly change my mind.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I want was is biblical.
ChurchOfChristfan says, The Lord is the judge of this -- Yahweh Raphe -- and He knows what is right and wrong
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, It is childish to look for biblical evidence?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So your church tradition supercedes biblical evidence?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Hey, just give me one verse that supports it.
ChurchOfChristfan says, I will not fall to your pharisiacal ways
ChurchOfChristfan says, I have my evidence
ChurchOfChristfan says, and you have yours
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But I can give you mine right now.
ChurchOfChristfan says, that's not the point
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The point is that opinions are worthless if there is not biblical evidence to support them.
ChurchOfChristfan says, exactly
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I can support my belief here, can you?
ChurchOfChristfan says, and both of us have opinions
ChurchOfChristfan says, and both of us have evidence
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you do, then please give it to me.
ChurchOfChristfan says, but only one of us is will to be a Pharisee
ChurchOfChristfan says, the other of us would prefer to live as the Bible says
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, That's all I"m asking for is for you to give me the biblical evidence.
ChurchOfChristfan says, and not get caught in your childish disputes
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If I'm in error, then you have a responsibility to show me in the Bible where I am wrong.
ChurchOfChristfan says, perhaps the quesiton you should be asking yourself....is not "what proof can COC give?"
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Why are you so offended by me asking for verses to support your belief?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Why are you afraid of giving me proof?
ChurchOfChristfan says, you need to be asking yourself "is there anything in the Bible to say that this tradition of acapella music is condemned by God?"
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If your belief is so biblically valid, then there should be no problem.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, that is not the issue. The issue is what biblical support is there for a church that makes a contract for not having instrumental music in their service.
ChurchOfChristfan says, I am not afraid to give you proof. I am afraid of the Lord if I should get caught in your childishness
ChurchOfChristfan says, it is the same quesiton
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, How are you going to get caught by giving me the biblical evidence I'm asking for?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, the question you are asking is like saying, Show me in the Bible where it says there are no unicorns.
ChurchOfChristfan says, then it's a moot point
ChurchOfChristfan says, and neither one says it was displeasing to God
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, it's not. Because I have scripture to back up my position. If you cannot back up yours with scripture, then I suggest you need to change your belief to line up with the scripture.
ChurchOfChristfan says, my belief lines up with the Scripture
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, It also does not say that cloning people is displeasing to God, but I believe it is.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If it does, then please just give me the scripture.
ChurchOfChristfan says, the problem is....as soon as i would bring one up, you and your "holiness" would fire back at me OTHER verses about what supports your PREFERENCE
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you can't give me the scripture, how can I know that your belief lines up with the Bible?
ChurchOfChristfan says, it's not that I can't....it's that I won't
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Oh, so you are saying I might have more evidence of my position than you would have of yours?
ChurchOfChristfan says, because all of the scripture is there for you just as it is there for me
ChurchOfChristfan says, but you are blind to it.
ChurchOfChristfan says, because you choose to be blind to it
ChurchOfChristfan says, and you are makingthis a contest again.
ChurchOfChristfan says, in your desire to be right, you are losing sight of the lifestyle God wants you to live
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Oh, so, because I don't believe the way you are, now I am blind....even though I have more scriptural evidence for my stance....
ChurchOfChristfan says, and that is very sad to me
ChurchOfChristfan says, you are blind because you are not seeing the destruction you are bringing on yourself
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You have an interesting way of choosing your beliefs....it sounds to me like you are not willing to consider that there is more evidence that contradicts your position than supports it.
ChurchOfChristfan says, you are making God some kind of a CONTEST....a PRIZE that you want to win
ChurchOfChristfan says, And that is the difference with the Church of Christ and your church.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Honey, pharisaism is precisely what you are doing. It is where you are believing your tradition, even though you have no biblical evidence to support it.
ChurchOfChristfan says, We believe we are God's prize -- that He won us -- that He vied for us and defeated the Enemy. You guys are still trying to win Him.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I don't have to win anyone. All I'm asking for is biblical evidence to support your beliefs. Why do you find that so offensive?
ChurchOfChristfan says, Just because I don't share my biblical evidence with you to avoid your narrow-minded secularism doesn't mean I don't have it
ChurchOfChristfan says, I find it offensive because you just want to argue. you want to say the one with the most evidence wins. And that is false teaching.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You haven't even given me one verse.....I mean, really, there should be at least ONE, shouldn't there?
ChurchOfChristfan says, unless you give me a verse that says there should be no acapella worship, then evidence to support either of our PREFERENCES is moot.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Yeah, that's how sound doctrine works...the one who has the most biblical support must have the most biblical positionh.
ChurchOfChristfan says, no,that's not how sound doctrine works
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, that is faulty logic.
ChurchOfChristfan says, that is how you'd like it to work, but that's not how it works
ChurchOfChristfan says, no, it isn't faulty logic.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Just as there are no verses saying, "There are no unicorns" there is no verse that says.
ChurchOfChristfan says, but it's like trying to throw a tennis ball through a brick wall.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, no, it's just a simple person asking for simple biblical reason for what you believe.
ChurchOfChristfan says, you are comparing apples and oranges, my friend
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Why can't you give me a biblical reason for your beliefs?
ChurchOfChristfan says, to say that something existed or not is a totally different question than asking if something for which both sides are presented in the Bible is acceptable to God or not
ChurchOfChristfan says, I CAN. I just won't.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Okay, here's what you are missing...I'm asking you to give me ANY verse that supports the existence of acapella music as part of worship.
ChurchOfChristfan says, your narrow-minded, needy flesh has taken over you. let it go.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Let's just start there.
ChurchOfChristfan says, no.
ChurchOfChristfan says, I refuse to do that for you.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, so, you can't.
ChurchOfChristfan says, yes, I can.
ChurchOfChristfan says, I could give you several.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Be honest. You can't.
ChurchOfChristfan says, But I won't
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Let's here them.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, hear
ChurchOfChristfan says, Absolutely not.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I'm waiting......
ChurchOfChristfan says, I am wondering how quickly after this conversation you will be brought to repentance for your victimizing actions and narrow-minded contest-ism.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You know, I've talked with many people and when it comes down to it, when they are unable to give me any biblical support, it's not because they don't WANT to...but because they CAN'T.
ChurchOfChristfan says, well, for me, it is because I don't WANT to.
ChurchOfChristfan says, You are Satan.
ChurchOfChristfan says, The way you are talking is not of God at all, but is of the flesh.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, COC, so God is now in the habit of condemning people for asking people to give them verses?
ChurchOfChristfan says, And as a Child of God, I don't have to answer the flesh
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, COC, asking for verses is not a sin.
ChurchOfChristfan says, He condemns you for your childish actions, for your arrogance in "his name," and for your persistent bullying.
ChurchOfChristfan says, As a parent burns with anger against a bully, so God's anger burns against you at this moment.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Oh, so now it is "bullying" someone to ask them to give them verses?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Wow, I didn't know asking someone for Bible verses could get them so upset.
ChurchOfChristfan says, it is as the Pharisees continually tried to trap Jesus into breaking their law -- so you are trapping me into an argument with you because you'd like to show how much you know.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, all I'm asking for is biblical support for your position.
ChurchOfChristfan says, As Jesus refused to succomb to their temptation, so I refuse you now, Satan, because I am His child
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You haven't even given me one verse.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Why does the Bible offend you so much?
ChurchOfChristfan says, the bible doesn't. Even you don't. The fact that you are allowing Satan to take over your mind and your body....that upsets me.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So, because I"m asking you to give me verses to support your belief, I am satanic.....hmmm......now, that doesn't sound much like Satan asking for sound doctrine. He usually is the one opposing sound doctrine.
ChurchOfChristfan says, but you aren't asking for doctrine or verses to support my belief
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "doctrine' means teaching....I am asking you for verses to support your belief, the doctrine you are holding to.
ChurchOfChristfan says, And therefore, I will not succomb to that.
ChurchOfChristfan says, I know in my heart that I am based in Biblical truth.
ChurchOfChristfan says, And that is more than you can say for yourself at this moment.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Please scroll back and read how many times I've merely asked you to give me a verse or two that will support your position.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Why are you so upset when I merely ask for verses?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I'm unbiblical because I'm asking for biblical reasons for your belief yet you are biblical because you refuse to give me any?
ChurchOfChristfan says, you would realize that your stance at this time, the way you're presenting yourself, are unbiblical
ChurchOfChristfan says, The conversation about musical preference right now is not important any more. You have shown yourself to be a false teacher.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So what you're saying is that it is unbiblical to ask someone to give a biblical reason for what they believe?
ChurchOfChristfan says, The issue now has to be your relationship with God.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So, a false teacher is one who asks you to give a biblical reason why you believe the way you do?
ChurchOfChristfan says, How long will you allow Satan to convince you that this is about biblical reason at all?
ChurchOfChristfan says, Long ago, we separated from your desire to tempt me.
ChurchOfChristfan says, We separated from your wanting a biblical reason.
ChurchOfChristfan says, That is not what makes you a false teacher.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, It is unbibilical to ask someone for biblical support for their beliefs?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You consider it tempting someone when you ask them to give the biblical reasons why they believe as they do?
ChurchOfChristfan says, This is about YOU making God a contest, and a prize to be won.
ChurchOfChristfan says, I'm sorry -- I'm a little confused. Have you suddenly lost all of your ability to comprehend the English language, or has Satan binded you so much that you don't even realize what's happening any more?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Asking for verses to support what you believe is a contest? Hmmm...my Bible says we are to seek out sound doctrine and to test everything.
ChurchOfChristfan says, yes...sound doctrine
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, wait...I'm asking for a verse, one verse.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, All you have to do is give one verse.
ChurchOfChristfan says, sound doctrine is NOT based on how much or how little of something is int eh Bible
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Can you not even do that?
ChurchOfChristfan says, but that is how you are trying to make it
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, One verse.
ChurchOfChristfan says, you are trying to say "I can site more verses than you. I am right."
ChurchOfChristfan says, That makes you a false teacher.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, A false teacher can support their beliefs with more biblical evidence than one who teaches truth?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, one verse
ChurchOfChristfan says, Just because there is more of it in the Bible does not make it sound and does not make it any more valid than any other point of view.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If we cannot base our beliefs on evidence from the Bible, then where do we get our beliefs? From our feelings?
ChurchOfChristfan says, but MY beliefs ARE based in Scripture
ChurchOfChristfan says, that is not the issue here
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So show me!
ChurchOfChristfan says, I could give you numerous verses of "God brought destruction to His people"
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, you are avoiding the issue.
ChurchOfChristfan says, that does not mean that God will bring destruction on me and the rest of the saved world (which I am very sad to say does not appear to include you at the present time)
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you are so biblical in your belief, then just give me your scriptural support.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Why are you avoiding the support?
ChurchOfChristfan says, Because you don't want support.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So now I've lost my salvation because I am asking you to give me biblical reasons for your beliefs?
ChurchOfChristfan says, Why would I give support to a twig fallen on the ground? It has no capacity to understand it. So it is with you. Your mind, in your flesh, is closed to anything that does not agree with you.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, you haven't even given me any! How can I decide if you won't even give me any verses??
ChurchOfChristfan says, You HAVE decided.
ChurchOfChristfan says, This is the problem with your generation.
ChurchOfChristfan says, You have not lost your salvation. I question whether you had it in the first place.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lolol, you are so funny. You are trying to say that I'm the one who is closed minded, but I'm asking you to give me the biblical reasons why I might change my mind.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But you can't even give me one verse.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, It's so funny.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You can't even see it....you are clinging to this belief yet you have no biblical reason to do so.
ChurchOfChristfan says, You have already made it very clear that whatever evidence I give will be countered by you in quantity. Not quality, but quantity.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, And then when I challenge you, you claim that you HAVE verses to back it up, but like a child, you WON'T give them to me. lol, be real.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You haven't even TRIED to give me any.
ChurchOfChristfan says, No, I haven't
ChurchOfChristfan says, It does no good.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You have NOTHING. Quit lying to yourself.
ChurchOfChristfan says, I have everything.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you have them, just type one or two in.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Keep that delusion.
ChurchOfChristfan says, I have many verses at my fingertips to back me up.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Type them right in. I'm waiting.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Let your fingers do the walking.
ChurchOfChristfan says, Your bullying. Your close-mindedness. Your pharisaism. It's not worth betraying my God for.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Oh, lol, so now it's betraying God to show others what the Bible says.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lolol
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, What kind of God do you serve?
ChurchOfChristfan says, They asked Him, "Teacher, what is the most important law?" And He answered, "To love the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself."
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, He's really not sounding like the God of the Bible now.
ChurchOfChristfan says, I will not break the love relationship with Him to serve you, Satan.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, What does that verse have to do with instrumental or non-instrumental worship>
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, ?
ChurchOfChristfan says, You have been already sent to Hell, and I need not follow
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Let's see....now....God...or Satan....which one would hesitate when asked to give scriptural support?>
ChurchOfChristfan says, Furthermore, it is my job to love you, as well.
ChurchOfChristfan says, Jesus operated by the Father, not by the teachings of the Law (the Pentateuch).
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Are you saying that it is Satanic to ask someone to give a scriptural reason for their beliefs?
ChurchOfChristfan says, And He never backed Himself up any more than to say that it was by the Father that He chose His actions.
ChurchOfChristfan says, I say the same to you.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So, Satan asks people for biblical reasons for their beliefs....so that must mean God doesn't want anyone to use the Bible to support anything.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Interesting.....
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You have a very interesting God there.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, One who is scared of biblical support.
ChurchOfChristfan says, Neither one of us is right. This conversation has been very wrong. Wake up in love tomorrow....and maybe you will then understand. I will pray that God opens your eyes that you may see.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, God is not scared to ask for Biblical support.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Why do you avoid it? Why does it frighten you to be asked for it?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, MK 7:8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, MK 7:9 And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Traditions are what we do on our own.....if there is no biblical support for them, it's the tradition that needs to be changed.

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