Mormonism Part 2

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Before we pray, you're going to have to do some arranging on your screen so you can see a browser window and the Cheeta window....can everyone do that?

butterfly_h says, think so

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, ok, has a browser window open

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, I have mine set up so the browser is on the first half and the chat is on the second half....just resize them.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, We're going to be doing some "in the field" research tonight.

 lostinthought says, k got it

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Okay, while you all get it set up, I'll do the prayer.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Heavenly Father, we thank you and praise you for your incredible power and majesty.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, You alone are worthy of all glory and honor and praise.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, There is no other like you, not in heaven, on earth or under the earth.  You stand alone in your uniqueness.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, We ask you tonight to give us insight into your trut.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, truth

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Help us to discern truth from error.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Guide us in how to distinguish the facts from the fantasy in what we are going to read.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, We offer ourselves to you tonight for your glory and honor and praise because you alone are worthy.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, In the precious and wonderful name of Jesus, amen.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Yes Lord

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Amen

 mrs_pare says, amen

 lostinthought says, amen

 Mom2Candice says, Amen

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Tonight is kind of a part 2 of last time.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Does anyone remember the group we talked about last week?

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Mormons

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, That's right.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Tonight we are going to look for ourselves to see what the Mormons themselves say about themselves.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Go to http://www.lds.org

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, If you didn't know anything about Mormons to begin with, what would your impression of this webpage be?

 lostinthought says, looks good

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, See the quote, "The gospel is true; it is the hope of the world; it will move onward to accomplish all that it must do."

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Sounds pretty good, huh?

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, "It is proper during this season when we commemorate His birth that we remember the Lord Jesus Christ in reverence and with love. He has done for us what we could not do for ourselves."

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Sounds pretty main stream.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let's look a bit further....

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Click on the link to the left that says "Basic Beliefs"

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, got it

 lostinthought says, k

 mrs_pare says, got it

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, There's a beautiful picture of their temple....and next to it you see a list of various links....click on the one that says Nature of God

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Most people believe in a Supreme Being, even though they may call Him by different names.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Does anyone see anything there to give you a bit of warning?

 lostinthought says, yes

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, What is it, Sarah?

 lostinthought says, it just sort of sounds like they are saying as long as u believe in a supreme being its ok... they're not really defining that the god they believe in is the god of the bible or nething

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Very good!

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, whoo hoo Sarah

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Be cautious of any group that gives a broad, all-encompassing view of who God is.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let's click on the Heavenly Father link.

butterfly_h says, i was also thinking that they are making their views of other things more prominent than their view of God as a person

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Yes, that too, Holly.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, I noticed that...the link on that one page for more info about the Church itself was higher up than the link about God.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, right Holly, that too

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Jesus taught that God is “Our Father which art in heaven” (Matthew 6:9) We call God Heavenly Father because He is the Father of our spirits.

Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, There is no connection here between Jesus and God the Father.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, In fact, this gives the impression that Jesus has the same relationship to God as we do....only a child.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Also, notice that it says that God is the Father of our what?

 lostinthought says, yeah... whats the spirit thing sposed to mean?

 lostinthought says, i've never heard it put that way... father of our spirits

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, According to them, God is the father of our spirits....not of our bodies, but of our spirits....we are His "spirit children".

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Again, something that is inconsistent with the Bible.....a slight twisting of scriptures that ends up being big in the end.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Scroll down a bit to the link "What is God like?"

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, God is perfect. He is all-wise and all-powerful—the ruler of the universe.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Any problems with that statement?

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, not that I see

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, I don't see any either.

 lostinthought says, i don't see nething

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, How about this one?  He is also merciful, kind, loving, and just—your Heavenly Father. We are created in His own image (Genesis 1:27).

 mrs_pare says, nothing

 lostinthought says, looks good to me

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Do you notice anything missing in this one?  Because you are His child, He knows and loves you as an individual. He has a plan to help His children find joy in this life and return to live with Him when this life is over.

 lostinthought says, jesus is missing... again

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Yes, He is....and do you see any mention of salvation?

 lostinthought says, nope

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, to help his children find joy

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, no salvation, just joy, right?

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, And return to live with Him when this life is over....notice, "return"......

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, What does the word "return" imply?

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, humm, I missed that one.

 lostinthought says, that u come back to earth? that doesn't make ne sense..

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, remember, the Father of spirits, hint!!

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, No, that we started out with God, before we came to earth, and then we will return to Him.

 lostinthought says, oh ok

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Click on that "He has a plan" link.

 lostinthought says, but we didnt' really start out w/ him did we

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, No, there is nothing in the Bible to support that there was a pre-existence of our spirits.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, right Sarah, to start with him, that would make us what?

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, You can also see, by the way, in that statement that it is almost a universal salvation.

 lostinthought says, god

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, that is right, Doug, sorry, I missed that one. 

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, right

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, yep, that would make us little gods.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, sorry Deb, go ahead.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Click the plan link and you can see more about their idea of a plan of salvation.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, You lived with your Heavenly Father as one of His spirit children before you began your life on Earth. You were happy there, but God knew that you could not continue to progress unless you left Him for a time.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, So He presented His plan—the plan of salvation. It allowed you to come to Earth, where you would gain a physical body and would have experiences that would help you to learn and grow. The purpose of the plan is to help you become more like Him.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Heavenly Father knew that while you were on Earth you would make mistakes—everyone does. So, as part of His plan, He provided a Savior, Jesus Christ, who would make it possible for sins to be forgiven, and for all people who accept His sacrifice to return to live with Heavenly Father.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Now, just look at this next statement.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The fact that you are living on Earth means that you accepted Heavenly Father’s plan and came here wanting to do all you could to receive all He has to offer.

 lostinthought says, whoa.. thats a tad bit off

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, In other words,if you are already living on Earth, then you are already saved.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, One other very subtile message here, notice they say return with Heavenly Father, notice a word missing, it is not a misprint.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, yes, indeed

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, with Heavenly Father

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, right Deb, sorry, this one just popped out at me and had to mention it

 lostinthought says, is "the" the word missing?

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Not THE heavenly FAther

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Because he is one of many Heavenly Fathers

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, That is true, as you keep going, you see that their idea of God the Father is really God A Father.

Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, not "the" but "a"

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let's go to the Where do we go after we die?  link.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Death is not the end. Death is really a beginning—another step forward in Heavenly Father’s plan for His children.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Someday, like everyone else, your life on Earth will end and your physical body will die. But your spirit will not die. At the time of physical death, your spirit will go to the spirit world, where you will continue to learn and progress.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, As you can see, then, this life is merely a preparation time where we learn and progress so we can die and then learn and progress some more....wonder what we are progressing towards?

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, notice The is missing again, before Heavenly Father

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Death is a necessary step in your progression, just as your birth was. Sometime after your death, your spirit and your body will be reunited—never to be separated again. This is called resurrection, and it was made possible by the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Click on the link to The Eternal Nature of God's Children.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Notice the second paragraph.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, If you are to return to live with Him eternally, you must keep His commandments, accept Jesus Christ’s Atonement, and follow His example while you are on Earth.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Does anyone remember our 3 marks of a cult?

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, 1.  Distortion of God

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, 2.  Distortion of the Bible

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, and 3.  Distortion of Salvation by Grace

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, right

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, We've seen the distortion of God in part by how they refer to God as just a father, not THE Father.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, And here in this second paragraph, we see that they are distorting salvation by grace.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, According to them, are we saved by the cross alone?

 godslittlegirl22 says, nope

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Right...acccording to this, it is not only by what Jesus did, but it is also our own works that are necessary to be saved.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let's find out what their idea of heaven is...click on that link at the bottom.

 lostinthought says, brb

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Check out this paragraph.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Those who do these things and are worthy to return to the presence of God and Christ become “heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ” (Romans 8:17) of all that the Father has. They will return to live with Heavenly Father and with their families in His eternal glory.

butterfly_h says, gotta go pick my daughter up at work, be back in a few

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Notice, it is not because of Jesus that we are "worthy" but only because of the things we do.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Okay, Holly.

 godslittlegirl22 says, works oriented salvation agan

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, yep, and then look at this.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Those who choose not to follow our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will receive a reward according to what they have done in this life, but they will not enjoy the glory of living in the presence of God.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, ok HOlly, hugs

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Remember, everyone living here on Earth has already chosen to follow God's plan so we are all "saved"

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, EVERYONE gets a reward.....but they just don't get to be in the same place as God.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, What happened to hell?

 godslittlegirl22 says, it dont exist

 godslittlegirl22 says, actually it has been turned into a reward for doings

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Right...no mention of hell.

Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, yes, and there is a problem with what we "do"....Isaiah tells us that all of our righteous deeds are like filthy rags before God.

 godslittlegirl22 says, but its what so many THINK they are getting to heaven thru though

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Yes, it is.  But it's not the way God has said we get to heaven.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Basically, according to the Mormon teaching, anyone can make it to heaven, no matter what kind of God they believe in.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, right

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, It's just that the Mormons have an "inside track" on what God likes.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Yesterday, I was home from school because I'd been sick.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, I watched the 700 Club....

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Now, I do want to say I don't believe in a lot of what they talk about on there.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But they do have good news items that give a different perspective than you would get normally.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, They had on there a segment about this religious conference that was put on by the United Nations (indirectly).

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, It was a World Religions organization that wanted to bring people from all religions together to worship together.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, it was incredible....they had all kinds of weird religions worshipping and everyone else was to join in with them.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, They interviewed a lady who "represented" Christianity.....she was some kind of pastor or something from a denomination (don't remember which).

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, They asked her why other denominations were not invited.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, She said, "Well, you know Christianity is really considered an exclusionary religion.  Most Christians would not be comfortable with this type of group.  They have a tendency to see their way as the only way to God."

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The interviewer asked, "So you don't believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to God?"

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, She said, "Oh, yes, I do.  I teach my children that.  But I'm not going to say He's the only way for other people."

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Is it just me or is the lady contradicting herself?

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, boooo, no back bone

 lostinthought says, contradicting herself

 godslittlegirl22 says, yeah he must have scared her

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, and is a contradiction of terms, she just denied her faith to others.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, On the one hand, she is saying that she believes that Jesus is the ONLY way to God, but then she launched into how there are so very many other ways to God.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, It was bizarre.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Unfortunately, too many Christians have justified this contradiction in their own minds and have somehow blinded themselves to the fact that it IS a contradiction.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The Mormon Church does a similar thing.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Strangely, Mother Teresa is hailed as a saint both within and without catholic churches, yet she made the same statement when she was alive.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, If you continue reading in their materials, you will see that on the one hand, they believe that everyone is destined to go to heaven.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But on the other hand, any church other than the Mormon church is an "abomination before God."

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Yes, Doug, that is true about Mother Teresa.  Sadly, she didn't care what people believed.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, As you can see from what we have done tonight, we must be very careful about taking any website or organization for its face value.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, At the beginning, the first page looked good.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The second page we looked at wasn't too bad and used a lot of truth in it.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, dig dig dig.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But just keep looking.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, As you get deeper in, the false teachings get clearer and more obvious.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But the important thing is to do it from the first.

Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Does anyone in here know anything about frogs?

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, they make funny noises and hop around Deb

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, For those who don't know, frogs are amphibians.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, This means they go in the water and on land both.

 godslittlegirl22 says, i had to dissect one yuck!

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, lol Hailey

 lostinthought says, me too

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Another interesting thing about amphibians is that their body temperature is dependent on the environment around them.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, If you take a frog and put it in a cold environment, then their body temperature will turn cold.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, If it is hot, they will turn hot.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, If you take a frog and put it in a pot of room temperature water, it will sit there very happily, just croaking away.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, If you turn the water temperature up very slowly, the frog will adjust to it and not notice the difference.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Before long, you can easily boil the frog alive by slowly turning up the heat.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, This is how cults work.

 godslittlegirl22 says, poor frog lol

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, They don't show you all their teachings at once.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says,