SWDC The Interfaith Alliance: Reading Between the Lines


	The Interfaith Alliance: Reading Between the Lines Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Heavenly Father, we thank you and praise you for your love towards us. We thank you that you love us and care for us even when times get tough in our lives. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Tonight as we study your word, Lord, help us to be able to see the truth even when it's hard to find. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Guide us in our study, Lord. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, We ask this for your glory and yours alone, Jesus, and we ask this in your name, amen. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Amen annielover2 says, amen lostinthought says, amen Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Now, for tonight's study: "Reading Between the Lines." Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Question: When is a door not a door? Svetozar enters Svetozar leaves WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, phone Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, When it is a window? Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, No, when it is ajar. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, (((Joke)))) Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, (((Joke))) Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Oh, booo, just as bad but I was close. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, lol Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Tonight we're going to talk about things that aren't what they are. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Or at least they aren't what they SAY they are. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Ok, puts on his detective hat Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, In 1991, the Chattanooga New Free Press published a survey. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Here are some results from it. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, 35 % of America's evangelical seminarians deny that faith in Christ is absolutely necessary for salvation. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Remember, seminarians are the ones who are training to be pastors and leaders in the church. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, And that is Evangelical, wow lostinthought says, does evangelical seminarians - is that like all the churches lostinthought says, including legalistics i guess Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, That would be the churches that consider themselves evangelicals. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, seminarians are those going to seminary to train for the ministry. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Sarah, remember the /define feature. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, How about this one...... Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, 30-50 % of Protestant pastors and 30 % of born again Christians do not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, That is scary considering what supposed Evangelicals are to represent lostinthought leaves Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, 53% of those claiming to be Bible-believing conservative Christians say they do not believe in absolute truth. Elicard enters Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, And I think this one is the scariest of them all..... annielover2 enters Elicard leaves Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, 43% of born again Christians agree that it does not matter what religious faith you follow because all faiths teach similar lessons about life. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, wb, Mary Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, In other words, there are many people out there wearing the name Christian who are not Christian at all according to what the Bible teaches. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Because of this, we often have to be on our guard against those who say they are Christians who are not at all. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, When you were little, do you ever remember watching the cartoons with the great big shepherd dog that looked like he couldn't see anything but who was always a step ahead of the wolf? annielover2 says, yes Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, I remember now, had to think a minute Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, This is what we have to be....a step ahead of the wolves that are out there. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, That wolf would often try to dress up like one of the sheep so he could go in and grab one. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Sometimes that happens in our own churches today. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, There are many who come into our churches and say they are Christians, but who are really wolves in sheep's clothing, trying to fool us and do severe damage to the flock. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The best way to be prepared for it is it be watchful and read between the lines. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Does anyone remember the 3 marks of a cult we've been talking about? Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, test time Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, lol, and I don't think anyone knows. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, diminish the trinity Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, or Christ Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Mark 1: distort who God is. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Mark 2: Distort the authority of the Bible. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Mark 3: Distort the gospel of grace. WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, phone Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let's see how good you are at being detectives. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, ok wolfer Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, I'm going to quote from a sermon that was given by a pastor of a rather large church. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The title of the sermon was "How Does the Death of Jesus 'Save' Us?" Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let's see how what this man says matches up to our cult check. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, "I want to be perfectly honest in this sermon. Your pastor is among those who feel that the sacrificial and substitutionary views of Jesus' death horrendously distort the nature of God and offer a false suggestion of the kind of life that Jesus inspires." Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let me go on..... Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, "What kind of God sends a holy child into the world to grow to adulthood for the singular purpose of dying an unjust death?" lostinthought enters Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, wb Sarah. lostinthought says, whew finally lostinthought says, thx Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, "Is this a sign of love? In such a mechanical, if not pagan, transaction, where do you find the presence of grace or love -- God's grace and love for Jesus as well as for us? Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, "God is not a cruel overlord who must be appeased by the death of an innocent person before loving the highest order of creation. God is love." Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Sarah, Deb is posting part of a sermon given by a supposed Evangelical pastor. lostinthought says, oh ok Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, looking for the falsehood in his sermon. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Now, let's take what this man has said and match it up to our 3 marks of a cult. butterfly_h leaves Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Does he distort who God is? lostinthought says, was there some before i walked in too or just those 2 parts? annielover2 says, yes Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, "I want to be perfectly honest in this sermon. Your pastor is among those who feel that the sacrificial and substitutionary views of Jesus' death horrendously distort the nature of God and offer a false suggestion of the kind of life Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, "What kind of God sends a holy child into the world to grow to adulthood for the singular purpose of dying an unjust death?" Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, "God is not a cruel overlord who must be appeased by the death of an innocent person before loving the highest order of creation. God is love." Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, That's the whole thing. lostinthought says, ty chalk! Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Sure is a lot easier to do it the second time. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, lol lostinthought says, yes he distorts who god is Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Oh, it cut off part of that first one...should read, offer a false suggestion of the kind of life that Jesus inspires. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Does it appear from what you see here that this man sees Jesus as God Himself? Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, It appears that he does not understand or denies that Jesus is God and refers to him like an innocent child only, but not God in the flesh. lostinthought says, no it doesn't to me chalk Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, I agree, Sarah. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, It appears to me that this man doesn't see Jesus as God. He sees Him merely as a child of God. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, right Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Once again, as with so many cults, we see that he is tearing down Jesus, pulling Him down from where He belongs. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Also, notice that he distorts God's character by only saying God is love.....forgetting completely that God is also just and holy. lostinthought says, what denomination was this guy from? Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, I'm not going to say quite yet, Sarah. lostinthought says, oh ok lostinthought says, he acts like he's smarter than god too Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, lol Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let's look at mark 2..... Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Do you think this man distorts the authority of the Bible in any way? mrs_pare says, yes annielover2 says, yes Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Yes, because the bible specifically says that Jesus is God in the flesh Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, And in many more ways if you look closely. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Basically, this guy is saying, you know, you've heard all of this from the Bible about Jesus' death being a substitutionary payment for our sins but that's not what the truth is. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, He's substituting his own truth for what the Bible teaches. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Right, denying the very heart of Christianity Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let's check our 3rd mark.... Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Does this man teach the gospel of grace? Does he teach that we cannot work our way to heaven but it is only through the blood of Jesus that we are saved? lostinthought says, no b/c he doesn't even think that god should have sent jesus Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Exactly, Sarah. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, So, would you say that the man who made this sermon was a Christian according to the Bible? annielover2 says, no mrs_pare says, no lostinthought says, nope Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Now, do you all have a browser up do you can do a little online detective work? annielover2 says, no lostinthought says, sure Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Bring up a browser and go to this url. http://www.interfaithalliance.org/ Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The Interfaith Alliance is a group that wants to bring all faiths together under one umbrella organization. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Notice on the front page: Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, They are applauding that the 10 Commandments are being removed from the state grounds in Alabama. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Now, look closely over that front page.....do you see ANYTHING that is positive about bible-believing Christianity? annielover2 says, no lostinthought says, no lostinthought says, is this a christian site? Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let's look at who the members are of this group, Sara. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Sarah Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, sorry, my h doesn't work well. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, This is the site of the interfaith alliance that many churches are members of Sarah lostinthought says, its ok.. ppl misspell it all the time Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Click on the About Us link. lostinthought says, oh my goodness... i clicked on the church link on the about us page.. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The Interfaith Alliance is a non-partisan, clergy-led grassroots organization dedicated to promoting the positive, healing role of faith in civic life and challenging intolerance and extremism. butterfly_h enters Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Notice....challenging intolerance and extremism. This is their "goal" in life. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, wb Holly, hugs, server problems huh butterfly_h says, ty Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The question then becomes, what is it they consider "intolerance" or "extremism"? lostinthought says, it doesn't even make sense.... wiccan, pagan, jewish, christian science, methodist, baptist etc... all in there Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Right Sarah, and that is the point. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Exactly, Sarah. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, How can they ALL be equally correct in what they believe when they contradict each other? Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, African Methodist Episcopal African Methodist Episcopal Zion Alliance of Baptists American Baptist American Ethical Union Anabaptist Anglican Animist Asatru Baha'i Buddhist, Theravada Buddhist, Nichiren Buddhist, Pure Land (Amitabha) Buddhist, Zen (Chan) Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) Christian Methodist Episcopal Christian Union Church of the Brethren Church of Christ, Scientist Church of God The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Community Churches Congregationalist lostinthought says, lol why do ppl have to come up w/ things that don't make sense... Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, And the pastor whose sermon we just examined a portion of is the leader of this Interfaith Alliance. lostinthought says, yikes... Mom2Candice enters Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Holly, to update you, we are looking at the site of the Interfaith Alliance that many Christian churches are members of, not only members, but founders too, annielover2 says, hi mom butterfly_h says, ok thanks Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Hi April. butterfly_h says, hi April Mom2Candice says, Hi annie and doug Mom2Candice says, hi Holly Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The REAL yikes, Sarah, is that the "intolerance" and "extremism" they are against is ONLY fundamental Christianity. lostinthought says, hi april Mom2Candice says, hi lost Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Hi, April Mom2Candice says, is the study being done earlier, seems like I've been late the last two times. lol Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Lost is Sarah, Buterfly is Holly, and Mrs Pare is Charlotte. Mom2Candice says, Hi Deb and Donna Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Mom is April. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, yes, we are an hour earlier because I"m getting old and starting at 9 eastern is too late for me. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Starts at 8 eastern. Mom2Candice says, oh, ok, I will try to remember next week Mom2Candice says, catch you all later Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, ok April, hugs, but you can stay for the remainder if you like. lostinthought says, u'd think it wouldn't even last a week... the whole organization... they would have all killed eachother by now Mom2Candice says, that's ok, I can always read it and will be here on time next week Mom2Candice says, good night and God bless all Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Not really, Sarah, because they have a common cause.....get rid of the fundamental Christians. Mom2Candice leaves Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, That may be true in most situations but they are united in their effort Sarah, united against fundamental christianity Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, You see, the problem is that fundamental Christianity is the ONLY religious thought that excludes ALL others. lostinthought says, oh ok... i guess that makes sense Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Jesus said, I am THE way, not A way. lostinthought says, man, satan's good Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, yep, he sure is. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Good in deception. lostinthought says, he's using the christians to get rid of the christians Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Now let's go one more place...let's take a look at Dr. Gaddy's site...he's that pastor we were talking about. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, http://www.northmin.com/ Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Gaddy is the founder of the Interfaith alliance by the way. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, yes, sorry, not just the leader now, but the founder. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, If you look at this site, you will see that it appears to be a normal, regular church, right? lostinthought says, yeah i'd give it a shot if i didn't know what i just learned Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But this is what we're talking about tonight...reading between the lines. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, right, it appears like a Christian church for sure Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, We CANNOT take things for granted. We must always read carefully and see exactly what is meant by things. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Many times we see a ministry and it looks good on the outside....but this is where we must really look into what they are teaching. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, As you look at the front page, there is a clue that you should never miss.... Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Do you see the word, doctrine, anywhere? Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Or statement of faith? lostinthought says, no lol i looked for that tho when u first told us to go to the site annielover2 says, no mrs_pare says, no Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, That is one very big clue...always be suspicious of a ministry that doesn't openly display their doctrinal statement or a statement of faith. lostinthought says, is he purposely trying to hide it? lostinthought says, if they don't display it wouldn't that be because they know its wrong? Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Not exactly.....these kinds of people see doctrine as divisive. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Yes Sarah, because he has none annielover2 says, could it be under policy WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, mine says polity annie Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Actually, it's really polity...that means the politics of the church. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, interesting that they want to make sure people have access to that. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, let's go to their "message" first. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Northminster Church shares a common mission with all congregations that give priority to the corporate worship of God, relate with compassionate sensitivity and generosity to people in need, and function prophetically as a salty catalyst for both justice and mercy in their respective communities as well as in the larger world. Northminster Church ministers with an uncommon grace shaped by devotion to the biblical emphasis upon mercy, encouraged by personal dedication to making real the kind of church many have known only in their dreams, empowered by the word and the table, and energized by fellowship and faith. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Holly, do you know how to bring up that site at the same time as being in here? butterfly_h says, yes Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, ok, thanks. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Humm, word and the table? Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, There are a couple of things here that can tip us off to the wolf in sheep's clothing here. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, interesting Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, I think for me the first thing is where it says, "function prophetically as a salty catalyst" Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, prophetically usually means that they have prophets in their church and what those prophets say supercedes what the Bible says. annielover2 leaves Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Yep Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, then notice, it's a catalyst for both justice and mercy.....not only in their community, but in the world. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, On the surface, this doesn't look bad. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But then....looking closer, and knowing what we already know about this pastor, this is talking about standing up against anyone who says that what they believe is the ONLY way to God. butterfly_h leaves Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Then you have "uncommon grace"...meaning that they have this special formula that nobody else has. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, "the kind of church many have known only in their dreams"... Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, again, this is setting them apart from all others as the BEST way of worshipping God. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Empowered by the word and the table? Well, I'm not sure what that means. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, lol, that is what I was talking about, what is a table? Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, So, as you can see, things are often not what they appear to be. lostinthought says, lol Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, communion I suppose, but meaning taking communion with people of all faiths. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, As this week goes on, I'd like to encourage you all to remember what we have done here tonight and to apply these things to websites you might visit. Check them out and see if they are teaching sound doctrine or not. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, You can look more over these sites on your own and now that you know there is something fishy about them, you will probably see more and more things that set off the alarm in you. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The key is to train yourself to spot the "fishy" sites on your own. And it is something you have to train yourself to do. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, 1 Timothy 4:7 tells us: Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Being wise in regards to false teachings doesn't just happen....we have to TRAIN ourselves in it. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Work this week on training yourself to spot these false teachings. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, * the end * Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, <snd=APPLAUSE> (APPLAUSE) WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, very good Deb as always lostinthought says, that was cool chalk Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Straight from out unpublished book. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, out-our Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, lol, well, not STRAIGHT....but some of it was from it. WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, chalk are you going to post this Deb? Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, kind of straight. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Yes, I will try, but probably won't get it it until this weekend. Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, By the way Sarah, this guy claims to be a Baptist Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, And is supposedly a Baptist church lostinthought says, lol WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, ok cause I was on the phone and somehow you got iggied so I dont have all of it Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, And that is sad because I am a Baptist. lostinthought says, no kidding Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, no kidding Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, lol, okay, Donna. WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, I am a baptist also lostinthought says, i'm going to declare myself "independent" as of this moment Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, so, one can not be sure of what is taught just because they claim a particular denomination lostinthought says, "jesus freak" lostinthought says, thats my new religion Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, That isn't safe either Sarah. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, I'm also going to post Doug's article about fleecing the flock for fun and profit this weekend. You'll love it! WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, very good Sarah lostinthought says, ahh y not pare? Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Independent Baptist churches are not so good either. Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Well, all...I hate to teach and run, but I'm really tired tonight. lostinthought says, oh this is the new "independent jesus freak church" Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, No wonder it is all so confusing to people seeking God. WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, ok chalk, love you sis and God's blessings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lostinthought says, nite chalk Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Knowing sound doctrine is the only answer Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, NIght Deb WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, BIG HUGS Deb Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, May God's blessings go with you all tonight! Love you and hugs! mrs_pare says, night chark Parepidemos_oam_pastor says, ]hugs and God bless and will kee[ Rachael in prayer Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Thanks Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, night! * You have logged out of chat *

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