Catholicism and the 3 Marks of a Cult

Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Heavenly Father, we thank you for providing us with this way to be together, even though we are all so far apart.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Yes

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, We ask that you will help us tonight to focus in on what you want us to learn.

 annielover2 says,  YES LORD

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Help us to block out all the other distractions that are in our minds.

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, yes Lord

 annielover2 says, YES JESUS

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Turn our eyes on you and you alone.

 annielover2 says, YES ABBA

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Help us to be open to your Holy Spirit's leading.

 annielover2 says, YES FATHER

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, We ask this for your glory, and your glory alone, Father, amen.

 annielover2 says, AMEN

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, amen

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, Amen

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Without looking anywhere, can anyone tell me what the 3 marks of a cult are?  (Review from last week.)

mrs_pare says, amen

whispering_wings76 says, Reduceing Jesus, Reducing the Bible, and Reducing Grace

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, distortion of God

 annielover2 says, AGRESS

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Good job, Bella!

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, And Donna!

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, distortion of the Bible and distortion of grace

whispering_wings76 says, I paid attention

parepidemos_oam_pastor says,

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Tonight we're going to examine another set of beliefs and see how they match up to those 3 marks of a cult.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, We were accused last night of bashing Catholics.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, yep

 annielover2 says, YEA

 annielover2 says, AND DM WAAS THERE TO

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But remember, it is not "bashing" someone to show them the truth.

whispering_wings76 says, i missed tht

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, yep

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Has anyone here ever seen an old movie called, Logan's Run?

whispering_wings76 says, no

 annielover2 says, NOPE

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, yes I have

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, It was a sci-fi movie from the 80's.......

mrs_pare says, no

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Only heard of it

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, In this society, people went through a special "ceremony" when they turned 30.

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, right

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, It was said that they were given special new lives through this ceremony.....

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, but in reality, it was just a way to kill off people that this society considered "over the hill."

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Would it have been "bashing" those people to say, Hey, don't go into that ceremony....it's just their way of killing you?

Dragtaur enters

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Hi, Drag

 annielover2 says, NO

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, hi drag

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, no

 annielover2 says,  HI  DRAG

Dragtaur leaves

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Bashing comes when people are critical with the intention of making themselves feel superior.

WvstarwolfOAMCounselor is away (be right back)

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, It is actually very loving to tell someone the truth.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Even if not construed that way

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But most of us don't like to hear the truth when it involves something we hold dear.

 annielover2 says, RIGHT

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Tonight we're going to talk about Catholicism and I'm going to let you compare it to our 3 marks of a cult and see if it falls under that or not.

 annielover2 says, OK

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Mark number one?

whispering_wings76 says, Reducing Jesus

 annielover2 says, REDICING JESUS

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Right, changing who God really is.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Let's see how your logic is.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Mary is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God, so therefore Mary is the Mother of God, right?

whispering_wings76 says, No

 annielover2 says, NO

whispering_wings76 says, Thats not right

WvstarwolfOAMCounselor is back.

mrs_pare says, no

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, wb Wolfer.

whispering_wings76 says, God was before Mary

 annielover2 says,  MARY IS JUST THE MOTHER OF JESUS THAT WAS ALL

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, thx doug!

whispering_wings76 says, She was chosen to give birth to Jesus

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But Jesus is God.

whispering_wings76 says, she did not birth God

whispering_wings76 says, God has always been

 annielover2 says, JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD\

whispering_wings76 says, He did not need to be birthed

Indomitable enters

 annielover2 says, HI INDOMITABLE

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, hi indomitable

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But Jesus is God Himself.....so, why wouldn't it follow that Mary, who is the mother of Jesus, is also the mother of God?

Indomitable leaves

whispering_wings76 says, Because it does not work that way..Jesus is God in skin...

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, because God didnt need to use Mary

whispering_wings76 says, He made himself someine with skin

 annielover2 says, RIGHT

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Because this would mean that Mary would have to be God as well.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Right....in order to give birth to God, Mary would also have to be a god.

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Sound a little Paganish?

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Mary is NOT the mother of God (meaning Jesus' divinity), but only of His humanity.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But most Catholics have never thought through this point.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, They have been told since they were little that Mary is the Mother of God.....this is a belief that is very dear to their hearts.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, It's hard for them to hear someone show them logically how it's not possible.

whispering_wings76 says, If Mary were the mother of God, then God would have to be the fried egg instead of the shell, white and yoke right?

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, In a matter of speaking, I suppose so Bella.

whispering_wings76 says, just checking

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, But you must understand this basic principle of how Catholics view Mary....because it effects everything else we're going to talk about tonight.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Now, in order for Mary to be "the Mother of God", she had to be a perfect vessel....

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, What do you think they mean when they say she was a "perfect vessel"?

 annielover2 says, SINLESS

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, exactly.

whispering_wings76 says, Holy?

  Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, So, it is their belief that Mary had to be sinless in order to be "good enough" to give birth to God.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Do any of you think Mary is sinless?

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, hi jackal

whispering_wings76 says, No

whispering_wings76 says, she cannot be

 annielover2 says, NO

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, no she isn't

mrs_pare says, no

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, How can we know for sure that she is not sinless?

whispering_wings76 says, well I suppose she might be now, but not then

whispering_wings76 says, It says in the bible that noone is sinless until they go to heaven

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, right Wings

whispering_wings76 says, so when mary had jesus chances is she was not

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Romans 3:23  For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

whispering_wings76 says, but if she is in heaven she may be now.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Not just chances, Bella, but for sure.  Mary was a sinner just like we are.

whispering_wings76 says, yes

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, She cannot possibly have been sinless.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, However, the Catholic teaching is that Mary was sinless her entire life.

whispering_wings76 says, you cannot be sinless while alive..

whispering_wings76 says, no matter what

 WvstarwolfOAMCounselor says, Amen bella

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, (Also, that she remained a virgin her entire life...but that's another tangent.)

parepidemos_oam_pastor says, Correct Bella

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Right, Bella.

whispering_wings76 says, I have to keep reminding myself that..I think iof my church with their belief

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Now, because Mary was an essential part of God's plan, the Catholics say that what Jesus did couldn't have happened without her.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Therefore, she actually is part of the salvation process.

whispering_wings76 says, Mary is?

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Yes, Bella.

whispering_wings76 says, ok sorry

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, The teachings of the Catholic church can be found in their "catechism" which is a set of teachings about faith.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, In the Catholic catechism, we read about Mary.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect.  Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation…Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.

 Chalkbrd_oam_counselor says, Does anyone know what a Mediatrix is?

whispering_wings76 says, whats Annunciation and Mediatrix mean?

 annielover2 says, mno

whispering_wings76 says, oops