SWDC The Three Marks of a Cult


	The Three Marks of a Cult Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Heavenly Father, we thank you and praise you for providing us with this place to come and study your word together. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, We thank you that you have brought each of us here. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Hi Holly. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Hugs Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, yesLOrd Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Use this time to speak to our hearts and our minds about what you want us to know. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, We pray this in the precious name of our wonderful Savior Jesus, amen. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Yes Lord ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Amen Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, Amen butterfly_h58 says, hi Pare whispering_wings76 says, amen carmanfan33 says, AMEN liyla_k says, amen mrs_pare enters ParepidemosOAMpastor says, whew whispering_wings76 leaves Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, Hi mrs ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Hi Mrs butterfly_h58 says, hugs Mrs. Pare mrs_pare says, hi carmanfan33 says, HI MRS liyla_k says, hi mrs Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Has anyone ever heard of counterfeit money? Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, yes mrs_pare says, hi butterfly whispering_wings76 enters Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, wb Bella apartment210 says, hi all whispering_wings76 says, grrr..thanks Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Why do people counterfeit money? admiral_oam_counselor enters carmanfan33 says, TO MAKE MONEY] ParepidemosOAMpastor says, To pass it off as the real thing? carmanfan33 says, HI ADMIRAL Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, hi Marla ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Hi Marla. apartment210 says, because they don't want to earn it admiral_oam_counselor says, sorry I'm late. Forgot about the time change Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, How does someone make money off of counterfeit money? whispering_wings76 says, they pretend it is real money apartment210 says, agree ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Just got started Marla Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Is it fair to say then that people counterfeit money because it's worth something? carmanfan33 leaves whispering_wings76 says, yes mrs_pare says, it is working admiral_oam_counselor says, good. apartment210 says, yes carmanfan33 enters apartment210 says, when in the end no whispering_wings76 says, wb carman Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Just like people counterfeit money because it's valuable, so people counterfeit a relationship with God..... Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, wb Mary Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Let's look at 2 Timothy 4 to start out with. apartment210 says, ok admiral_oam_counselor says, wb Mary Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Paul here was in prison and he was giving some words of advice to young Timothy. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, We find some very valuable truths in this passage. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, First of all, there are many false teachings out there. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, These false teachings become popular because they suit people's desires. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Which do you think would be more popular, a teaching that said you could only eat vegetables and anything else was forbidden..... Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, or one that said it doesn't matter what you eat? whispering_wings76 says, does not matter Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, doesnt matter carmanfan33 says, it doesn't ,matter Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Which do you think would be more popular....a teaching that said you can have all the sex you want with anyone you want at any time.... Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, or you should confine sex to your marriage partner? Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, 1 admiral_oam_counselor says, the first one carmanfan33 says, 1 whispering_wings76 says, 1 certainly whispering_wings76 says, the first Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So, how can we know for sure what is the "right" one? whispering_wings76 says, the bible? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, exactly, Bella Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, Holy Spirit carmanfan33 says, jesus Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Tonight we're going to talk about how to spot counterfeit teachings. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you look again at the passage in 2 Timothy 4, you see Paul gives us a very important clue here. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, He starts right out with it.....Preach the Word. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, In this world of philosophies of every kind, the only thing we are 100% certain of is the Bible. apartment210 says, it is hard to temper reality with what is real out there in the world Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, We cannot guarantee that our perception is true, but we can guarantee that what God says in the Bible is true. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Sometimes what we think we perceive is not the true reality. apartment210 says, how so? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, For instance, when I was typing in the invites to most of you.... Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I typed, but the words didn't come up on my screen. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I was typing by faith that what I was typing was right. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, What I perceived as reality said that the words were not really going in. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But what reality really was said that yes, they are because taaa daaa, it worked. apartment210 says, ok Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Sometimes what we think we are perceiving is not necessarily the reality. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, THis happens a lot with God. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, People don't "feel" like God loves them. Has this altered the reality that God is love and He has said that He loves them? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Not at all. whispering_wings76 says, nope carmanfan33 says, no Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, nope Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The reality is that God loves you....whether you feel like it or not. apartment210 says, i like the things of the world choke out the word of God? apartment210 says, i mean the verse that says that apartment210 says, sorry go ahead Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, yes, they often do, Apartment. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Most of you know that I"m not a morning person at all. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, And since I've had this chronic fatigue, I'm even less of one. admiral_oam_counselor says, I can relate to that Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So, when the alarm goes off in the morning..... butterfly_h58 says, me too apartment210 says, me too no motivation carmanfan33 says, i am Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, well...frankly, I don't feel too much like God loves me. liyla_k says, I am apartment210 says, what? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But the reality hasn't changed. apartment210 says, ok Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, God loves me. Period. It doesn't matter what I feel like, He just loves me. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, true apartment210 says, while we were yet sinners admiral_oam_counselor says, amen Chalk Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So as we learn to walk in our spiritual lives, we have to learn to walk by what we know is reality......even when it may not look like it. liyla_k says, Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Sometimes pilots have trouble knowing what is up and what is down. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So do deep sea divers. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, That is why they have to rely on instruments to tell them up and down when they start to feel this way. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Our instrument to give us reality is the Bible. liyla_k says, how do we know what reality is? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, By knowing what the Bible says. liyla_k says, other than Srciptures liyla_k says, hehe liyla_k says, ok ParepidemosOAMpastor says, What God says Liyla, not by what we feel. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Has anyone heard of the word "Trinity"? Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, yes admiral_oam_counselor says, yes carmanfan33 says, yes apartment210 says, yes liyla_k says, yes carmanfan33 says, like trinty walmart apartment210 says, lol whispering_wings76 says, yeah..the three in 1 deal Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The Trinity is the concept of one God who is eternally co-existent in 3 persons. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, This is a doctrine (teaching) that is all throughout the Bible. liyla_k says, try explaining that to a muslim ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Or Jew Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, When we hear someone who says that God is not triune, is that person telling us the truth or not? whispering_wings76 says, triune? apartment210 says, triune? whispering_wings76 says, three? carmanfan33 says, not telling the truth Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, triune means 3 in one. butterfly_h58 says, no whispering_wings76 says, ok Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, tri (as in 3) and une (as in 1) whispering_wings76 says, well when you break it that way whispering_wings76 says, LOL whispering_wings76 says, they are not telling the truth apartment210 says, ok Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The first mark of cults is that they change what God is like. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Some of them change the Trinity into three separate gods or they change it into only one God, one person. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Any time a group teaches a God who is different than the God in the Bible, that group is teaching a false doctrine. whispering_wings76 says, do they always know that they teach a false doctorine? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Sometimes, in some instances, they add a fourth person to the "trinity"....and make it....uh...a quadrinity? whispering_wings76 says, or is that what they really believe? butterfly_h58 says, be back in about 10 min. gotta make my final kid run for the day Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, usually they do not know it is a false teaching.....they are blind to it. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor hugs Butterfly. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, ok Holly whispering_wings76 says, ok ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Is what they believe wings, but that comes about through improper understanding of the scriptures apartment210 says, so we need to be taught what is true because there is alot of it out there. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, ok Holly whispering_wings76 says, so they do not wake up one morning and just say hey, I think I will create and doctorine today? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, For example, in the Roman Catholic beliefs, Mary has been exalted to co-redeemer with Jesus. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, Bella. whispering_wings76 says, ok Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, In fact, I think what happens is that they are often led into it by little demons whispering in their ears. Many false teachings are the same teachings over and over again, just with a slightly different twist. whispering_wings76 says, ok..that makes sense apartment210 says, but there can be different interpretations Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Satan really doesn't have much of a repertoire. whispering_wings76 says, I imagine not! Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, He uses the same things over and over and has been for centuries. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, He just flips it over so we don't recognize it. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Yes Apartment, but there can not be two opposing interpretations and both me correct ParepidemosOAMpastor says, me=be apartment210 says, ok Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So, mark number 1.....they change something about God. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, kk Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, A lot of times it is pulling Jesus down to make Him merely a man. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, And in the process, they often exalt men so we end up higher than Jesus does. apartment210 says, good statement ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Which reduces the trinity. liyla_k says, yep whispering_wings76 leaves apartment210 says, that was the frist thing that god an angel thrown out of heaven Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I hope you're taking notes because we're going to do a field exercise in a few minutes. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, yes, it was, Apartment. apartment210 says, oh whispering_wings76 enters Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Mark 2 is taking away the complete authority of the Bible. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, wb bella Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, wb bella carmanfan33 says, wb bella whispering_wings76 says, thanks Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, This can be done by adding other "holy" writings to it.... whispering_wings76 says, I will be right back agaion whispering_wings76 leaves whispering_wings76 enters whispering_wings76 says, there sorry Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, wb bella Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, like for instance, Islam. They say, sure, the Bible is a nice book, but the Qu'uran, well, now THAT'S really inspired. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, For the Mormons, they add the book of Mormon. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, For some newer false teachers, they say that their visions or dreams are more valid than the Bible. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The Catholic Church adds that what it's writings say are just as important as what the Bible says. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Example Jehovah Wittness's own translation of the bible Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, And some people say, well, you can only trust PARTS of the Bible. carmanfan33 leaves Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So, Mark 2, questioning the authority of the Bible. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Can anyone tell me what Mark 1 was (without scrolling back up)? apartment210 says, umm butterfly_h58 says, back whispering_wings76 says, making Jesus less... whispering_wings76 says, taking away from him? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Right....reducing God. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, wb Holly. apartment210 says, ok whispering_wings76 says, thats the word admiral_oam_counselor says, wb holly Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Mark 1. Distortion of God. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, wb holly Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Mark 2. Distortion of the Authority of Scripture. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Mark 3. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Distortion of the gospel of grace. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, Distortion of Jesus Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, This is where they turn it from a gospel of grace where Jesus paid for our sins.... Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, into a gospel of works...where it's up to us to earn our way to heaven. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, For example... Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, A church says that in order to be a member with them, you have to speak in tongues. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you don't speak in tongues, you aren't saved. apartment210 says, i heard this alot Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you don't wear the right clothes, you aren't saved. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you don't get baptized, you aren't saved. apartment210 says, if you don't join the church you are a bad christian Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, if u dont tithe, you aren't saved apartment210 says, passive sins of omissions Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you don't .........you've got it. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lots of those kinds of "if you don't..." Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Those are all works-based salvation. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But I have news for them... Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The Bible teaches us that Jesus paid for ALL sins....and there is nothing we can ever do that will earn it. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, It is a gift, a free gift, no strings attached. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you do something to earn a gift, it is no longer a gift, but a wage. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, And the only wage we can ever earn is the wages of sin....which is death. liyla_k says, apartment210 says, agreed Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So, whenever someone says that you have to do this or that or whatever, then they are turning grace into works and are heading right for the title of cultic teaching. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Let's review.... Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Mark 1? whispering_wings76 says, reducing Jesus Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, (no fair scrolling) liyla_k says, Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, Distortion of God whispering_wings76 says, I did not Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Right...distortion of God in some way. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, distortion of the Bible Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Mark 2? Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, distortion of Grace whispering_wings76 says, reducing the bible Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, Donna's ahead of me. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Mark 3? whispering_wings76 says, reducing grace Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, sorry..needs to be quiet lol ParepidemosOAMpastor says, lol Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Right...any time they change any of these three things....God, the Bible or grace, they are falling into the area of false teachings. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Are you ready for your assignment? Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, yep whispering_wings76 says, let me get my agenda whispering_wings76 says, lol Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Can you open a second browser window? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Or, if in Cheeta, open one browser window. butterfly_h58 says, how do you do that? apartment210 says, uh ok admiral_oam_counselor says, ok apartment210 says, i have 10 open whispering_wings76 says, ok Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, Apartment. Can you use one to go somewhere? Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, got it Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Butterfly, are you in Yahoo? butterfly_h58 says, yes Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, And you are using IE? butterfly_h58 says, yes Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Okay, some IE user, help me out....how do you open a second browser? whispering_wings76 says, just go to start whispering_wings76 says, internet explorer whispering_wings76 says, adn it will open another Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, okay, thanks. butterfly_h58 says, ok apartment210 says, you have to open another whispering_wings76 says, start progremmes and then IE whispering_wings76 says, and it will open another Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If I post the URL, will it open a second browser? whispering_wings76 says, not always Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, yes it should Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, okay, don't want her to get booted.... apartment210 says, ok where do we go? apartment210 says, need the info Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Here's the URL for you to go to...I want you to see if you can find whether these people distort the idea of God or not. THat's the first one. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, http://www.apostolic.net/upc/me/aclc/articles.htm Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, got it admiral_oam_counselor says, got it whispering_wings76 says, ok liyla_k says, k ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Or, just click that and it will automatically open the window for you Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Hopefully...I'm not sure how IE works. butterfly_h58 says, i got it learning2bcontent789 says, it isnt working for me! apartment210 says, i am not sure it is true apartment210 says, i think some words have been added ParepidemosOAMpastor says, you in cheeta Hailey? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Cute and paste, Hailey. whispering_wings76 says, it looks wrong at the start but I am not sure if it is wrong whispering_wings76 says, LOL learning2bcontent789 says, i did that learning2bcontent789 says, said the page cant be found Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You may have to try it again, Hailey. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, close and click again Hailey apartment210 says, refresh apartment210 says, hailey ParepidemosOAMpastor says, or refresh. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, There, I sent you the URL through ICQ....and XYZ too...felt like alphabet soup there! learning2bcontent789 says, ok i got it now i had to take that font at the end out learning2bcontent789 says, with that little symbol thing liyla_k says, whoa whispering_wings76 says, I tink I might be in trouble whispering_wings76 says, LOL learning2bcontent789 says, i can already answer this one learning2bcontent789 says, before reading it apartment210 says, what? learning2bcontent789 says, UPC---> go figure! apartment210 says, lol ParepidemosOAMpastor says, I know Hailey, but lets see if others can see the subtile twist in here first. learning2bcontent789 says, ok i'll keep quite! whispering_wings76 says, I thiNK i need to read MY bible more whispering_wings76 says, LOL apartment210 says, what does incorporeal mean? apartment210 says, it is on the website Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, I is being quiet too....shhhhhhh Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, without a body, Apartment. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, lol apartment210 says, ok Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Notice how it starts out with a quote from the Bible. Just because a group quotes from the Bible, this does not mean they are biblical in what they believe. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Sounds very orthodox in the introduction doesn't it. apartment210 says, it is interspersed Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, sure does doug admiral_oam_counselor says, I see some things already Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The first part sounds good. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But then we start seeing the 3 marks... whispering_wings76 says, I am such a loser whispering_wings76 says, LOL Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Look at the description of God. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, no Bella, you are still learning Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Is this description of God one God in three persons or one God in one person? ParepidemosOAMpastor says, this stuff will help to keep you from ever getting caught up in a cult or with cultic teachings. learning2bcontent789 says, knows Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, We believe in the one ever-living, eternal God: infinite in power, Holy in nature, attributes and purpose; and possessing absolute, indivisible deity. This one true God has revealed Himself as Father, through His Son, in redemption; and as the Holy Spirit, by emanation. (1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:6; 2 Cor. 5:19; Joel 2:28). Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, That second line starts to tip their hand... Main Entry: em·a·na·tion <img src="/images/audio.gif" border=0 height=11 width=16> Pronunciation: "e-m&-'nA-sh&n Function: noun Date: 1570 1 a : the action of emanating b : the origination of the world by a series of hierarchically descending radiations from the Godhead through intermediate stages to matter 2 a : something that emanates or is produced by emanation : EFFLUENCE b : an isotope of radon produced by radioactive disintegration <radium emanation> - em·a·na·tive <img src="/images/audio.gif" border=0 height=11 width=16> /'e-m&-"nA-tiv/ adjective apartment210 says, what is emanation? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The word "emanation" means through various stages... apartment210 says, ok Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, hard to read your typing apartment whispering_wings76 says, yeah very bright Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, According to them, God is not co-existent, but God was first the Father and then became the Son and then the Holy Spirit....He is not all of them all at the same time. whispering_wings76 says, oh it says that? ParepidemosOAMpastor says, for cheeta users, do this.../define emanation apartment210 says, okay Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Let's go on and see what it says. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The Scripture does more than attempt to prove the existence of God; it asserts, assumes and declares that the knowledge of God is universal. (Romans 1:19, 21, 28, 32; 2:15). God is invisible, incorporeal, without parts, without body, and therefore free from all limitations. He is Spirit (John 4:24), and a spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39). Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But Jesus, who is God, said, See, touch my hands and my side. whispering_wings76 says, he said that to tomas liyla_k says, apartment210 says, huh? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Yes, so Jesus HAS a body...even after He died....He has a real, flesh and blood body. apartment210 says, no one has touched jesus before whispering_wings76 says, yes apartment210 says, wait take that back ParepidemosOAMpastor says, At this very moment I might add liyla_k says, haha Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Luke 24:38-39 "38 He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."" Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, This was after He rose from the dead. So, yes, Doug, right now, Jesus does have a body. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Sometimes you can tell a lot about a group by looking at what they emphasize. apartment210 says, what version bible do you use chalk? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Look at this next part: "The first of all the commandments is, hear, 0 Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29; Deut. 6:4). "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph. 4:6). " Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I use the New International. apartment210 says, ok ParepidemosOAMpastor says, And says the same thing in KJV and all the other translations. whispering_wings76 says, oh cats...brb liyla_k says, cats? apartment210 says, lol ParepidemosOAMpastor says, K Bella Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Here we see an emphasis on the verse that says God is one. This again is their desire to squelch the idea of a triune God. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "This one true God manifested Himself in the Old Testament in divers ways; in the Son while He walked among men; as the Holy Spirit after the ascension. " Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Here we see this progressive God.... Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, He used to be the Father and then He was the Son and now He's the Holy Spirit. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Would you say this group fulfills Mark 1 of a cult? Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, whispers yes Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, What was Mark 2 again? admiral_oam_counselor says, yes apartment210 says, why whispering yes Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Distortion of God is Mark 1. Distortion of......? ParepidemosOAMpastor says, So, according to them, God the Father said, this is my Son, and he changed real fast from Father to Son, then when the Holy Spirit fell upon Jesus, he changed to the Holy Spirit real fast and back to the Son. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, Bible Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, Doug Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Distortion of the authority of the Bible. apartment210 says, wow like superman? apartment210 says, sorry carry on ParepidemosOAMpastor says, better than Superman. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, no mention of a phone booth though...lol ParepidemosOAMpastor says, lol Wolfer apartment210 says, no jesus rides chariots? whispering_wings76 says, back Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, wb bella whispering_wings76 says, thanks... Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, On this one, it is very subtle....the way that it works is that this church is the one to set up the guidelines as to how people have to live. admiral_oam_counselor says, wb bella whispering_wings76 says, thanks stupid cats butterfly_h58 says, hmmm sounds familiar Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Scroll down a bit....to where it says, "holiness" Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Read the last paragraph under that. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Says she is not online, Doug. whispering_wings76 says, Furthermore, because of the display of all these evils on television, we disapprove of any of our people having television sets in their homes. We admonish all of our people to refrain from any of these practices in the interest of spiritual progress and the soon coming of the Lord for His church. whispering_wings76 says, thats crazy whispering_wings76 says, are they crazy Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Now, tell me, who is it that set these rules? Is it the Bible or is it the church? whispering_wings76 says, ahh..church I hope.. whispering_wings76 says, I never saw anything about tv in my bible so far stillyounger enters stillyounger says, thank you Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, hi still ParepidemosOAMpastor says, welcome stillyounger says, hello apartment210 says, really don't excalt the idiot box mrs_pare says, hi liyla_k says, hi still Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Under the part about public school, it says, "We disapprove of school students attending shows, dances, dancing classes, theatres, engaging in school activities against their religious scruples, and wearing gymnasium clothes which immodestly expose the body. " liyla_k says, tv?? stillyounger says, hello room, please go on with the study admiral_oam_counselor says, hi still butterfly_h58 says, well i hate to say it but it sounds like my church whispering_wings76 says, ok so shorts are bad for their salvation? whispering_wings76 says, they are just legs apartment210 says, my gosh Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, yes, guess they're supposed to wear long sweats and long sleeved shirts to play basketball. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, hugs Holly whispering_wings76 says, and let me tell you, if people are influenced by my legs against their salvation they really need to get out more whispering_wings76 says, lol Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, Bella ParepidemosOAMpastor says, lol Bella liyla_k says, apartment210 says, lol admiral_oam_counselor says, lol Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, It doesn't take long when you look at this to see that these people are not saved by what Jesus did, but by what THEY do. whispering_wings76 says, Jesus said that it does not matter who we are or what we are, we come as we are... liyla_k says, yep ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Second mark, works based salvation Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Right...if our salvation depended on us, we'd all be done for. whispering_wings76 says, but can I ask something? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, (3rd Mark, Doug) Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, sure, Bella whispering_wings76 says, I was reading and it say that if you do something that makes your brother stumble in his faith, you are to stop ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Oh, right Chalk, by dumb. stillyounger says, and some of us come alittle rough on the edges {im talking about myself} ParepidemosOAMpastor says, by=my whispering_wings76 says, so even though they are not really in the right mind of faith, is that the same? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Bella, our goal is always to be to move people closer to God....if what we are doing is keeping them back from God, then we should by all means stop it. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, And God does the smoothing Deena. whispering_wings76 says, but what if it is something like that stillyounger says, thats Doug Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, For instance, in some congregations here in the US, drinking wine would be a REAL stumbling block. stillyounger says, thanks i meant whispering_wings76 says, it would? Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, However, in France, they use wine for communion. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, I know. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, I read tyupos whispering_wings76 says, wine is used here for everything ParepidemosOAMpastor says, typos ParepidemosOAMpastor says, and do them stillyounger says, Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So, if I'm here in the US, I wouldn't consider drinking wine in front of people who would have a problem with that. whispering_wings76 says, ok ParepidemosOAMpastor says, exactly Deb Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But when I'm in France, I would not have a problem drinking wine with them. liyla_k says, ParepidemosOAMpastor says, In moderation of course, don't use a quart jar for communion. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If I know it's going to be something that someone would gasp and wonder how a Christian could ever do such a thing....well, if it's not spoken against in the Bible, we can do it....but sometimes it's not the best thing for us to do. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol, Doug apartment210 says, lol that was funny pare admiral_oam_counselor says, I need to get going. Talk to you all later. Thanks for the study Deb. whispering_wings76 says, ok Deb that makes sense Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You only sip it anyway. admiral_oam_counselor says, God bless you Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, May God's blessings go with you, Marla! admiral_oam_counselor leaves mrs_pare says, night whispering_wings76 says, night admiral Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You just need to be governed by what the most loving thing is, Bella. apartment210 says, so what are we supposed to sip on? whispering_wings76 says, so use common sense? liyla_k says, bye admiral! Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The communion wine in France...only a sip because they only use 1 cup. apartment210 says, oh Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Anyway, back to the article to wrap things up. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, kk Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Grace, by its very definition, means that we cannot in any way do anything to deserve or earn it. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If we do, then that cannot be grace. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Let's see what they say about grace. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, A Christian, to keep saved, must walk with God and keep himself in the love of God (Jude 21) and in the grace of God. The word "grace" means "favor." When a person transgresses and sins against God, he loses his favor. If he continues to commit sin and does not repent, he will eventually be lost and cast into the lake of fire. (Read John 15:2, 6; 2 Peter 2:20-21). Jude speaks of the backsliders of his day, and their reward. (Also, read Hebrews 6:4-6). ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Major wow Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, How can it be grace if we have to work to keep it? whispering_wings76 says, oh my Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, wow liyla_k says, hum apartment210 says, yes oh my Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Isn't a salvation like this based on what WE do and not on what JESUS did? apartment210 says, that causes a great fear to me Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, yes apartment210 says, can we lose our salvation? Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, no apartment ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Yes it does Apartment and cultic teachings are based of fear, guilt and intimidation whispering_wings76 says, I do not think so apartment Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Apartment, since this group fails in all 3 of the cult check, it would make no sense to believe what they say in this area. Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, Jesus said "IT IS FINISHED" apartment210 says, so what she quoted above is not true? whispering_wings76 says, unless you chose to walk away but even then I think it is still there, you just left it behind by your own choice Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, it is not, Apartment. apartment210 says, ok apartment210 says, whew Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you want to work your way to heaven, then it is a good way of keeping people in line according to what YOU want them to be like...threaten them that if they don't do what YOU tell them to, they will lose their salvation. butterfly_h58 says, now my church does NOT teach that ParepidemosOAMpastor says, That is good Holly Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Any time a church teaches that you can lose your salvation if......then they are works-based. whispering_wings76 says, interesting... apartment210 says, no whips on my back apartment210 says, just love me Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The passages mentioned above, if you look at them closely, you will see that they took some twisting to get to the point of saying they mean that you will lose your salvation...and then they ignore the verses that say no one can snatch us out of God's hand. whispering_wings76 says, convenintly for them Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If our salvation relied on us to do anything, then it would not be a free gift. stillyounger says, can one loose their salvaation? stillyounger says, salvation Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, no still Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, Deena. ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Can't lose what you can not earn Deena Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But there are many who never really had it in the first place who have walked away from God's offer. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, God cannot take back His gift. apartment210 says, yes i have backslidden please pray for me Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, sure will apartment Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, When we are saved, we are adopted into His family. God doesn't take us back to the adoption agency each time we sin. stillyounger says, is there any sin i can commit that God would abandon me ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Will do Apartment. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, We are part of Him forever. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, No, Deena. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Apartment, we all backslide at times. apartment210 says, great book to read is "living free in christ" who you are in christ..by Niel Anderson ParepidemosOAMpastor says, no Deena, but sin causes us to draw away from him and we feel abandoned. apartment210 says, yes in deed whispering_wings76 says, I would love to stay longer bu I have to have a book read for the morning and I still have over 200 pages Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Well, Apartment, I think if you applied our 3 marks of a cult to it, you would actually find that Mr. Anderson falls under the category. stillyounger says, i believe that Doug whispering_wings76 says, This was great! Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, May God's blessings go with you, Bella! HUGS! apartment210 says, thanks for coming whipsering wings whispering_wings76 says, NIght all! whispering_wings76 says, Have a good night! Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, nite bella..love you sis and God's blessings!!!!!!!!!!! stillyounger says, night wings Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, HUGS sis!!!!!!!!! whispering_wings76 leaves mrs_pare says, night ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Nioght Bella Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Here's the thing with Anderson.....in his thinking, in order to be REALLY free, you have to do these 7 steps. Sounds like works-based salvation to me. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If Jesus didn't free us from EVERYTHING, He didn't free us from ANYTHING. stillyounger says, how can you know the will of God in your life Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, By reading the Bible, Deena. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, God's will is always to make choices that please Him. apartment210 says, i am so glad we have choices apartment210 says, sometimes a choice is the hardest thing you can do but I'm told it gets easier with age Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, yes, we do. And that is why we must examine those choices VERY carefully to make sure they line up to God's word...there are many out there that LOOK good on the surface. stillyounger says, i noticed you said that it was okay to drink as long as your not dirnking in front of others who have problems with it Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Apartment, the first time I read Anderson's stuff, I didn't read it too carefully and I thought it sounded pretty good. Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But when I started reading it in view of the Bible, I started seeing some very distressing things. stillyounger says, are there every any wrong reasons to drink butterfly_h58 says, he hurts people Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I've written them in an article on our site that you might want to check out. http://www.oaim.org/deliverance.html ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Only in moderation Deena, if it leads to drunkness, then it would be wrong for sure Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Most reasons to drink are wrong....to do it as an escape from anything is definitely a wrong choice. liyla_k leaves liyla_k enters Wvstarwolf_OAM_Counselor says, wb liyla liyla_k says, thanks ParepidemosOAMpastor says, wb Liyla stillyounger says, but didnt Jesus say to take wine for your stomack liyla_k says, Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, I'm going to have to be going for the night...it's getting very late and I've got a rough few days ahead of me. liyla_k says, thank you so much, chalk! apartment210 says, ok butterfly_h58 says, hugs Deb Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, May God's blessings go with you all! Make sure you check everything according to the Bible! stillyounger says, and in Kings I think it says that you can drink if you are heavy hearted butterfly_h58 says, thank you liyla_k says, God bless you too, night! * You have logged out of chat *Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor leaves

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