The Offense of the Cross (Galatians)
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Heavenly Father, we thank you and praise you for providing this place for us to come together to learn more about you.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, We ask that you would put your hand on Rachel right now. Please allow everything to go well for her. Grant the doctors skill.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Lord, we also ask for you to take care of Donna as she drives to be with her.
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Yes Lord.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Father, tonight, help us to focus in on you and your word.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Show us what you want to know about you.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Open our eyes and hearts to you, Father.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, We ask this in the precious name of Jesus and for His glory, amen.
learning2bcontent789 says, Amen
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Amen
whispering_wings76 says, amen
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, amen
carmanfan33 says, amen
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The title of tonight is "The Offense of the Cross."
coffeejunkie034 says, amen
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, As I said on the board, we're going to be talking about Pharisaism (Legalism) and 7th Day Adventists and Oneness Pentecostals.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The reason we're putting these two groups together is that they are very similar in some important respects.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, To start out with, I'm going to take you back a bit into your childhood.
carmanfan33 says, ok
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, When you were little, do you remember anything your parents made you do that you didn't want to do?
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Eat tomatoes
whispering_wings76 says, vegetables
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, lol
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Unless it's tomato soup, right, Doug?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Did anyone's parents ever keep you from playing somewhere because they were afraid you'd get hurt?
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Right Deb
carmanfan33 says, no
whispering_wings76 says, yes
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Did your parents ever make you brush your teeth and take a bath?
carmanfan33 says, yes
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, yes
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Did your parents ever make you clean up your room?
whispering_wings76 says, no
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, (mine tried, but it never did any good.)
whispering_wings76 says,
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, lol Deb
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, When you were little, your parents had to "force" you to brush your teeth, take a bath, eat the right things.....kids really don't know what is best for them to do.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, When you grew up, though, you brushed your teeth, took baths and ate good things because you'd learned that it was the right thing to do....right?
carmanfan33 leaves
whispering_wings76 says, yes
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, right
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, This is what we are going to talk about tonight....the difference between living under the law and living under grace.
coffeejunkie034 says, right
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, It may look very similar when you look at people's behavior, but the key is to look at the heart.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Turn to one of Doug's favorite books....Galatians.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, If you go to the first chapter, you can see that Paul does not waste much time in confronting the Galatians with a serious problem.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, GAL 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, As you can see from Paul's strong language, this was something that was a very serious problem.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Paul had noticed something in the Galatians that had turned them away from the grace of Christ.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, And it was turning them to a "different gospel" which is really no gospel (good news) at all.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, How serious was Paul about this? Look at his language!
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, He says that if anyone teaches anything other than the gospel that Paul had originally taught them, that person should be condemned to hell forever.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Paul was so strong about it that he even said it twice.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Let's go on to find out what it was exactly that was happening.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, GAL 1:10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, GAL 1:11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, GAL 1:13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, (here Paul is giving his qualifications, his background, which shows what authority and knowledge he had to be saying what he was saying to the Galatians)
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, GAL 1:18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 I saw none of the other apostles--only James, the Lord's brother. 20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie. 21 Later I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22 I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only heard the report: "The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy." 24 And they praised God because of me.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, GAL 2:1 Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. 2 I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. 4 This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5 We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Here we see what the problem was.
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, Deb you need to invite Liyla_k in
That person is not online.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, says she's not online...is that the correct spelling?
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, liyla_k
That person is not online.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Says she's not online. Have her come into chat.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You can invite her. Just go up to Chat and then down to Invite.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The first Christians, the first ones to follow Jesus were Jews.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The one thing about Jews is that the men were ALWAYS circumcized.
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, Deb she is in chat
liyla_k enters
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, There she is.
liyla_k says, hi everyone
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, hi liyla
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Imagine going to a church where the only way to be a part of it was to cut off your thumbs.
liyla_k says, hi wvstar
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Hi Liyla.
liyla_k says, hi pare
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Would you join a church if you had to cut off your thumbs?
sanjowina408 says, KiLLa KaLifAz Fo - 0 -EiGhT iN DaT BaY oF SaNJoSe
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, no
whispering_wings76 says, nope
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, This was the problem that the early church faced....
upc_daisy enters
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, hi upc
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, there you go. Hi, Daisy.
liyla_k says, hi upc
upc_daisy says, thank you
upc_daisy says, i dont understand what is going on with this computer tonight
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, The problem in the early church was that the Jews belonged to a church that was like that.....in order to belong you had to do something pretty drastic to yourself.
upc_daisy says, hold on just a minute, be right back
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, okay
liyla_k says, like aesthicism?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, When Paul started preaching, God called him to preach to the Gentiles.
whispering_wings76 leaves
Main Entry: aesˇthetˇiˇcism <img src="/images/audio.gif" border=0 height=11 width=16>
Pronunciation: es-'the-t&-"si-z&m, is-
Function: noun
Date: 1855
1 : a doctrine that the principles of beauty are basic to other and especially moral principles
2 : devotion to or emphasis on beauty or the cultivation of the arts
whispering_wings76 enters
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, wb, Wings
whispering_wings76 says, thanks
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, well, Liyla, not really....
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, wb wings, a short flight?
whispering_wings76 says, yeah just a yahoo trip to disconnect
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, wb wings
whispering_wings76 says, thanks
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, When the gospel was being taken to the Gentiles, then the Jewish believers were having real trouble understanding how they had to do all those things, circumcism, following all the laws, etc, but the Gentile believers seemed to get away without doing anything.
liyla_k says, right
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, To the Jews, they couldn't imagine being really saved if you didn't live under the law.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, So here was the situation in Galatia.
whispering_wings76 leaves
That person is not online.
whispering_wings76 enters
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Paul was preaching that you are saved by your faith in the finished work of Christ, but the Judiazers were saying that it couldn't possibly be that simple....
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, wb wings
whispering_wings76 says, I need rope or glue
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, Or wings cliped.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, You surely had to do more than just believe in order to be saved, though the Judiazers.
whispering_wings76 says, hey.....
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, thought
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, a touch of Pare-itis tonight.
whispering_wings76 says, Were the Judiazers...the Jewish people?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, They were Jewish people who thought that everyone should have to become Jewish before they could be saved.
whispering_wings76 says, ok
carmanfan33 enters
whispering_wings76 says, I think I understand now
wvstarwolf_oam_counselor says, wb carman
carmanfan33 says, TY
ParepidemosOAMpastor says, wb Mary
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, wb, Mary
liyla_k says, hi carman
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Paul was traveling with a guy who was a Greek (a Gentile, which is everyone who isn't Jewish) and the people around Paul wanted Titus to be circumcized.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, They didn't think Titus could be a REAL Christian if he wasn't doing the "right" thing.
coffeejunkie034 is away (Auto-Away)
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, GAL 2:6 As for those who seemed to be important--whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance--those men added nothing to my message. 7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews. 8 For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9 James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews. 10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, GAL 2:11 When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12 Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Here was a problem situation.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Peter had a vision that said he was supposed to accept the Gentiles as real converts.....
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, But....
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, When some Judiazers came from James in Jerusalem....
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Peter all of a sudden changed what he'd been doing.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, He had been associating with the Gentiles with no problem...
upc_daisy says, Peter was denying the gentiles because of the Judiazers?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, but when the people came from James, Peter decided he'd snub them and ignore them, pretending he believed they had to be circumcized to be real Christians.
whispering_wings76 says, a pillar is a post right?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Yes, Daisy
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, yes, but in this case a pillar means a main supporting person.
whispering_wings76 says, ok
whispering_wings76 says, sorry
coffeejunkie034 is back
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, GAL 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, GAL 2:15 "We who are Jews by birth and not `Gentile sinners' 16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
upc_daisy says, who is Peter though?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, This is the Apostle Peter, the one who denied Jesus 3 times.
upc_daisy says, the same one, oh!
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, (By the way, if you talk to someone who is Catholic, this is a great passage to show that it would be difficult for the early church to see Peter as THE pope when Paul told Peter he was wrong to his face.)
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Paul flat out told Peter that he was being legalistic.
upc_daisy says, If Peter was an apostle, why was he pretending this?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Peter wanted to require people to follow the law, even though he knew that it wasn't the law that saved people, but only their faith in what Christ has done for us.
upc_daisy says, the people had been taught better anyways, right?
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, A lot of people are taught better.....but when it comes to being embarrassed in front of people we want to impress, it's amazing what we'll do.
upc_daisy says, how come he did this? I thought that when he denied Christ at the Crucifixion, it was the first time.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, And this is what Paul wanted Peter to see.
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Peter denied Christ 3 different times that night, Daisy.
upc_daisy says, but, that was too stupid. maybe i dont get it
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Stick with me, Daisy, and see if it doesn't start to make sense.
upc_daisy says, if Peter knew that this circumcision wasn't true, then why did he do that?
upc_daisy says, okay, i'll try, but where is this founjd in the Bible, so that I can see.
liyla_k says, interesting
Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, Peter wa