1 Corinthians 15:7-11 Part 1

(to go to Part 2)

Spiritual Warriors

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Well, are we ready to start?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "yep "

 seashell_71 says, "yep"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Let's pray."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Heavenly Father, we thank you for giving us tonight to come and learn more about you."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "Yes lord"

 seashell_71 says, "yes father..."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Lord, we thank you that you are indeed a God who wants to be known."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Thank you for providing us with your written word that shows us your character and your love for us."

Your buddy parepidemosoampastor is in chat

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "Yes Lord"

 sarah0806 says, "yes"

 sarah0806 says, "yes Lord"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "We ask that you will guide our thoughts and words tonight.  Let us be focused on you and your glory, Jesus."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "We ask this in your precious name, and for your glory, amen."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "amen"

 seashell_71 says, "amen"

ParepidemosOAMpastor enters

 sarah0806 says, "amen"

 seashell_71 says, "hey dad!!"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "wakey, wakey, sleepy head!  "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Hi. "

 sarah0806 says, "hey pare "

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "hi Doug "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "sits quietly in the corner with my daughter Hailey. "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Waves to by daughter Shell. "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "by=my"

 seashell_71 says, "by to you too...hehe"

 seashell_71 says, "polish that crown dad...."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "lol"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "rofl"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "just woke up, give me a break. "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Last night in 1 Cor. 15.  Tonight we're dealing with verses 7-11."

 seashell_71 says, "you should be waking up all chipper...."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "excuses excuses Doug "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Doug wakes up slooooooooowww."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "better than none at all."

 seashell_71 says, "okay okay....I got the picture now...."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "please continue onward Deb. "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "lol"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "yes, sir!  (As she saluts!)"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "ok ready "

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "rofl"

 seashell_71 says, "lol"

 seashell_71 says, "you go girl...."

ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "<snd=ugogirl> (ugogirl)"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "I wanted to point out that last time we talked about James."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Doug and I were talking and we realized that there might have been a different reason Jesus appeared to James...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "could have been because he was His brother."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "aha"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But not sure."

 seashell_71 says, "oh, well that makes sense..."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Just speculation on all of that."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Take a look at the progression of who all Jesus appeared to after He arose."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Peter, the Twelve....."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "(trivia question....anyone up for one?)"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "sure"

 seashell_71 says, "yep\"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "yup"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "If Judas went out and hanged himself after betraying Jesus, how could there have been Twelve at this time?"

 seashell_71 says, "?????????????"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Uhh, went to the same school I did?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "lol"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "can't add or subtract."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "I mean, why doesn't it say Eleven here?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "hmmmm"

 seashell_71 says, "have no clue????"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "At the beginning of Acts, the 11 disciples got together and selected a 12th....anyone know his name?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "ummmm brain isn't working"

 seashell_71 says, "matthias...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "lol, yep, that was his name."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "i have a ?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "hands Shell a cupie doll"

 seashell_71 says, "got tabs on the bible..."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "sure, Hailey."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "knows i am stupid but was Judas a disciple anyhow?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "yes, Hailey, he was.  He was one of the 12."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "oh ok sorry i am stupid"

 seashell_71 says, "he was the one prophesied to betray Jesus...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Not stupid at all, Hailey.  "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "NOt stupid Hailey."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "The only stupid people are ones that don't ask questions when they have them.  "

 seashell_71 says, "we are all here to learn Hailey..."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "goes back away to hide "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Just didn't know, big difference."

sarah0806 leaves

sarah0806 enters

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Hailey, a lot of people don't know the names of the disciples."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "wb sarah"

 sarah0806 says, "sorry..."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "wb"

 sarah0806 says, "thx"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "that was quick Sarah."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "sorry, had to take a bite of cherry pie....just love that MrsPare!"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "On with the study........"

 sarah0806 says, "had to restart my puter.."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, " loves cherry pie"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "not until the study is finished Deb."

 seashell_71 says, "hehe....you go dad..."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor stuffs some cherry pie through the mic for Marcie.

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Yum, this is good."

 sarah0806 says, "lol"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Yeah, and he's sitting there with his fork in his hand..."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "yummy thanks Deb "

 seashell_71 says, "save me some.....pleeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "You want some for breakfast tomorrow????"

 seashell_71 says, "I don't think that is a good idear for b-fast...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "sorry, back to the study."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "ok"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "umphhh yoopfhh dmpthhh"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "rofl"

 seashell_71 says, "hehe"

 sarah0806 says, "lol"

 seashell_71 says, "i am lagging, am gonna reload okay....."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "So, Peter, the Twelve (which included the newbie Matthias), 500 +, James, all the apostles, and then last to who?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Sorry, talking with mouth full od cherry pie. "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "od\of"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "ok shell "

 seashell_71 says, "Paus...."

 seashell_71 says, "paul."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "right"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Paus?"

 seashell_71 says, "you are rubbing off on me dad...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "And notice what Paul says about himself:  as to one abnormally born.  Why do you think Paul considered himself abnormally born?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "he does that shell "

 seashell_71 says, "oooo-oooo-ooo I know....."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "ok another stupid ? where are u reading from anyways?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "1 Cor. 15:8"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "In the KJV it says, "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, ""as one born out of due time""

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "1 cor 15:8 Hailey"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "probably using another translation."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "What kind of experience did the Twelve have with Jesus?"

  hurtandrejected21 says, "no i just didnt know where u guys where at periodddddd"

 seashell_71 says, "I cheated though, already hit deb up for answers earlier today....I will be quiet now...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "lol"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "k"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Shell........ quiet?"

 sarah0806 says, "hehe...yeah right"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Let's turn to Acts 1...verse 21"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "This shows the qualifications by which they selected Matthias."

seashell_71 listens.

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "What were the qualifications the new replacement had to meet?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "ok"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have.....what?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "One who witnessed the resurrection of Jesus?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "ooops"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "yep, that was one of the qualifications down the list"

 seashell_71 says, "some one who was there the whole time of Jesus before the resurrection..."

wvstarwolf_oamcit enters

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "Hi Donna"

 sarah0806 says, "hi Donna"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Hi, Donna"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "(Whispers) Hi Donna."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Yes, Shelly.  They wanted someone who had been there and walked and talked with Jesus."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Sorry, I am late guys, my daughters decide to call just as I am about to get on here"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Acts 1:21 for the moment, Donna."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Hi Everyone "

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "ok"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "got a frog in your throat Doug that you have to whisper? "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "that's okay Donna, sit here in the back with Hailey and me."

 seashell_71 says, "it says from the time of John the Baptist till the time Jesus was taken up from them..."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Notice, from the time Jesus was baptised till after His ressurection."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "yes"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "what are we discussing?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "No, didn't want to disrupt the teacher. "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "the whole time, in other words."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "We are checking out the qualifications the 11 disciples used to choose Matthias who replaced Judas."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "oh okay, I was just reading about that the other day"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "1 cor 15:7-11 Donna"

aservant4him_oamcit :   /\        /\

aservant4him_oamcit :     \ _____\

aservant4him_oamcit :       (_)--(_)

aservant4him_oamcit :   Puts on her sunglasses for high colors

 seashell_71 says, "also, they needed someone who witnessed the resurection...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "So, all the disciples had witnessed Jesus and knew Jesus in a way that was very close and intimate.  They knew what He was REALLY like."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "yes they did"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Why do you think this was their criteria?"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "so they could witness about him?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "it was esential for the gospel to be spread at that time someone who had experienced the whole situation from begining to end"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "What did we say last week about eye witness testimony?"

 seashell_71 says, "so they would get a first hand recollection"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "accuracy of an eyewitness?"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "best testimony in the world"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "yes, it adds to the validity of it."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Now, back to 1 Cor. 15:8"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "listening"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Does anyone know how Paul met Jesus?"

seashell_71  sits down

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "on the damascus road"

 seashell_71 says, "fell on his face...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "yes....."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "So, did Paul know of Jesus in the same way as the other 12?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "no"

 seashell_71 says, "nope"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "no, not really"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But did he still know Jesus like they did?"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "no, I don't think so"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "afterwards, yes"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Although Paul hadn't walked with Jesus, He revealed Himself to Paul in a very special way."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "My person opinion is that the reason we don't hear much about Matthias..."

 seashell_71 says, "he says by grace he was able to preach...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "is that he was the disciples' choice for # 12...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "And Paul was God's choice."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But that's just my opinion.  "

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "I tend to agree with you Deb "

 seashell_71 says, "sounds good...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "So, with all this about Paul in mind, why do you think he referred to himself as one who was abnormally born?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Yes shell, so Paul knew grace like none other."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "hmmmmmmm"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "?"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "?"

 seashell_71 says, "I already know....but...am quiet....hehe"

 seashell_71 says, "okay, I can't be quiet anymore...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Because he didn't come to know Jesus in the same way....his spiritual birth was much different than that of the disciples."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "because he was converted by Jesus?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "sorry, Shell....am lagging and had that in before I saw what you said."

 seashell_71 says, "because Paul was not a witness, he was called upon  by grace....."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "yes, his birth was totally in grace."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Paul goes on to tell us that he didn't deserve to be called an apostle...why not?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "because he persecuted Christians before his conversion"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "because he was a sinner and persecuted Christians"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "right......he was out there killing Christians."

 seashell_71 says, "isn't grace awesome!!"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "yep it sure is "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "The reason Paul was persecuting the Christians is because he was trying to follow the letter of the Law."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "sure is shell."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "He was a Pharisee, of the highest sect of Pharisees even, and he wanted to keep the "purity of the faith"."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "He was so into following in the Law, that he missed what God wanted him to see."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "He was killing off those who had found the wonderful grace of God."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "like we do sometimes"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Does anyone know what legalism is?"

 seashell_71 says, "till he found it himself...."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "In a way,yes Donna. "

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "following the old law"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "The Pharisees were very much into legalism.  They based their salvation in DOING things....in their own works, of following the Law."

 seashell_71 says, "trying to earn their way to goodness...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Where there is legalism, grace cannot be found."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Grace cannot be understood by those who are trying to earn their salvation by their own works."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "It is only when we are faced with our sin, humble ourselves and repent that we can really understand what grace is."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "What is grace?"

 seashell_71 says, "hmmmmmmm.....forgiveness????"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "okay, who in here has Cheeta?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "I do "

 sarah0806 says, "i do"

Main Entry:       ¹grace

Pronunciation:   'grAs

Function:           noun

Etymology:        Middle English, from Old French, from Latin gratia favor, charm, thanks, from gratus pleasing, grateful; akin to Sanskrit grnAti he praises

Date:    12th century

1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification b : a virtue coming from God c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine grace

2 a : APPROVAL, FAVOR  <stayed in his good graces> b archaic : MERCY, PARDON c : a special favor : PRIVILEGE  <each in his place, by right, not grace, shall rule his heritage -- Rudyard Kipling> d : disposition to or an act or instance of kindness, courtesy, or clemency e : a temporary exemption : REPRIEVE

3 a : a charming or attractive trait or characteristic b : a pleasingly graceful appearance or effect : CHARM c : ease and suppleness of movement or bearing

4  -- used as a title of address or reference for a duke, a duchess, or an archbishop

5 : a short prayer at a meal asking a blessing or giving thanks

6 plural, capitalized : three sister goddesses in Greek mythology who are the givers of charm and beauty

7 : a musical trill, turn, or appoggiatura

8 a : sense of propriety or right  <had the grace not to run for elective office -- Calvin Trillin> b : the quality or state of being considerate or thoughtful

synonym see MERCY"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "i do"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "i think everyone does Deb"

 seashell_71 says, "I do...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Type this in, Cheeta people.  Type /define grace (leave a space between define and grace)"

 seashell_71 says, "define grace"

 seashell_71 says, "that worked...."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "sanctification"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "The very first definition says, unmerited divine assistance."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "right"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Grace is something good that we get even though we don't deserve it."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Let me give you an example."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "listens"

seashell_71 listens.

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "There was a little boy who was playing and he knocked over his mom's favorite vase."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "He went to his mom and confessed what he had done, tears streaming down his cheeks.  He said, "Momma, I didn't mean to do it, honest I didn't.""

wvstarwolf_oamcit listens to Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor.

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "His mom has a choice.  He DESERVES punishment...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But she gives him a hug and says, "I know, honey.  Now, help me clean it up.  It'll be okay.""

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "that is grace, right?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "That is grace.  Not what he deserved, but what gave him her love."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "When Jesus died on the cross, grace was given to all of us."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "To everyone."

 seashell_71 says, "because of His Love...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "The grace that pardoned us all of our sins, not because we deserved it....we deserved to be punished (which was death)."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "it is our choise whether we accept it or not"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "it wasn't something we deserved "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "right, we don't deserve it....."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "this is why legalism, which says, I deserve to be saved because I've done this and this and this and this is the opposite of grace."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "And any time we try to add something to salvation, whether it be baptism, doing good deeds, loving others, whatever, ANYTHING that is added to make us so we DESERVE salvation, is legalism."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Legalism is contrary to grace."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "agrees"

 seashell_71 says, "It's like Jesus says, I love you just the way you are...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Exactly, Shelly."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Besides, if you think about it...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "If we COULD do anything to deserve our salvation, then we wouldn't be saved by grace....."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "because grace by very definition means that we CAN'T DO ANYTHING.  "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Yup. "

 seashell_71 says, "we can't do anything right, and we can't do anything wrong to deserve grace..."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "it isn't a outward appearance as some churches think.. it doesn't matter how long your dresses are or if you wear nothing but.. or the length of your hair that is important"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Romans 11:6 tells us, And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.""

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Righte, Marcie."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "there are many different faces that legalism can wear in our churches today...."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "right Marcie, that is leagalism, thinking that will earn favor with God. "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Can't earn something already given."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Paul says, "But by the grace of God I am what I am""

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Grace humbles us."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Thank God, because I would definitely fail"

sarah0806 is away (Auto-Away)

 seashell_71 says, "I would be in big trouble too...."

 sarah0806 says, ".."

sarah0806 is back.

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Without God's grace, we would all be doomed to rest on our works for salvation....and our works are but filthy rags in the sight of our holy God."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Amen Deb"

 seashell_71 says, "yeppers/"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "The next line in verse 10 Doug pointed out to me earlier...."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, ""

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, ""And His grace to me was not without effect.""

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "listens"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "We talked about predestination a couple of weeks ago."

seashell_71 listens.

wvstarwolf_oamcit listens to Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor.

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "God's grace has already been given to ALL."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "To some, it has been without effect...to others, like Paul, he can say, His grace was NOT without effect."

 seashell_71 says, "so everyone is predestined...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "exactly!"

 seashell_71 says, "wooo hoooo...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But some choose not to accept."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Deb, does that mean that are names were already in the Book of Life"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "In other words, everyone received an invitation to the party, but not everyone will decide to come."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "are=our"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Yes, Donna."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "okay, that is what I thought."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "All the names were written there when Jesus paid the price on the cross."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Those who reject, will be blotted out."

 seashell_71 says, "oh my.....you just totally changed something I was taught since I was little....."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "And instead of being judged on the grace of God, those who reject Jesus will be judged by their own works...."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Finally got something right"

 seashell_71 says, "wow.....that is so cool..."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "There will be two judgments....one of grace and one of works."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Those who have fallen on the grace of God, will be judged only for their degree of rewards."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "that is soooo cool...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Those who rejected Christ will have nothing left to fall back on but their own works....which can never stand up through the judgment."

 seashell_71 says, "whew, am glad I am under tlhe grace judgement...."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "me too Shell"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "me too!"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "me too shell "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Those who want to say that we can lose our salvation are relying on their works to save them."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "like some of the ones that came into the room last nite"

 seashell_71 says, "with all that has been going on with me, I am glad for tonite....."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "yep that used to be my greatest fear losing my salvation"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "mine too Marcie"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "God's grace is an eternal thing....it doesn't come and go.....it's not only for those who just become Christians but for ALL of mankind."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "even had nightmares about it"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Deb, I used to think (before OAM) that if I wasn't perfect, I wasn't saved."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "If you saw the guy last night, he had the same argument that most of the legalistic people have."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "he sure did"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "And if you are perfect, Donna, then you wouldn't need a Savior, right?"

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "yeah he was there before I left"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "right"

 seashell_71 says, "so tell me another thing, just to get it strait....there is no such thing as "backsliding"...right??"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "you can backslide Shell"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "yes, you can backslide"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "but you don't lose your salvation over it."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "but you never lose your salvation God is always there"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Amen Marcie, or I would be in trouble."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "me too"

 seashell_71 says, "okay, that is what I was going for.....man, that church I went to when i was a kid messed things up for me...."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "wants to ask something but is too scared"

  hurtandrejected21 says, "so keeps quite"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Go ahead, Hailey."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "hailey it's ok ask the question"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Shell I backslid for 20 years"

 seashell_71 says, "I did for about 5...."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "no i cant sorry am too scared "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor hugs Hailey

sarah0806 is away (Auto-Away)

 sarah0806 says, "."

sarah0806 is back.

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "ok guys I have to go "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "If Jesus' sacrifice didn't pay for ALL sins, then it wasn't complete."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Night, Marcie.  God bless you, sis!"

 sarah0806 says, "bye Marcie"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Night Marcie, love ya Sis.....HUGS!!!"

 seashell_71 says, "C-ya marcie...hugsssssssssssss...."

 aservant4him_oamcit says, "night guys God Bless all of you richly love you all "

aservant4him_oamcit leaves

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Some say that when we are talking about relying on grace for our salvation that we are giving people a license to sin."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "well that leaving sure makes me think bad thoughts now"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Night Marcie, hugs and love ya sis."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But look at the end of verse 10....No, I worked harder than all of them -- yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me."

JackieO71 enters

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Grace doesn't say, Here ya go, now run out and sin all you want!"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Hi, Jackie"

 sarah0806 says, "hi jackie"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "hi jackie"

JackieO71 says, "hi sarah"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "On the contrary, grace has just the exactly opposite effect on us...."

JackieO71 says, "hi star"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "why hailey?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Hi Jackie"

JackieO71 says, "hi doug"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Grace makes us want to work harder for the Lord, not because we fear punishment, or we fear losing our salvation, but because we are grateful for this undeserved favor He has given us."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "guess i made her mad at me by being afraid to ask my ? heck i dont know Donna"

  hurtandrejected21 says, "she hated me before anyways"

  hurtandrejected21 says, "so its ok"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "ac Hailey"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Hailey, she had to get off the computer so someone else could use the phone.  Not you."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Hailey she always has to get off early."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "sorry "

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "hugs Hailey"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Paul could understand grace because he'd been there as a Pharisee...he'd been trying to keep the Law in order to earn his salvation...."

JackieO71 says, "yes"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But then he met Jesus and saw what grace really was....not because of anything he could do, but only because God chose to give it to him."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "If you've seen legalism, trying to rely on doing things to earn or keep your salvation, then when you experience grace, it will knock your socks off!"

angelforgod_18 enters

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "So, we've spent several weeks talking about what the REAL gospel is....and I can sum it all up in one word....anyone want to guess?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Hi, Lidya"

 sarah0806 says, "hi angel"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "whew, look at that sock fly......"

 seashell_71 says, "GRACE!!!!"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "yep, GRACE!!!!"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Hi Angel, how are you? "

JackieO71 says, "God's grace?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "lol, Doug"

 angelforgod_18 says, "i m fine thanks donna"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "One last thing I want to add...."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "listening"

seashell_71 listens.

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "The biggest problem we as humans have is that we don't like to rest in grace."

JackieO71 says, "me too"

ParepidemosOAMpastor is away (be right back)

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Deb, I need to write that down!!!"

 seashell_71 says, "it just seems too simple sometimes deb.....but they say what's simple is true...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But our salvation is purely not of our own.  There is NOTHING we can DO for our salvation....."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "If there were, then salvation would no longer be by grace, but by works."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves.  Not of works, lest any man should boast."

JackieO71 says, "this is true"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Deb, I love that verse"

 angelforgod_18 says, "I agree"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Something I've been learning is that pride and grace are opposite concepts too."

JackieO71 says, "true"

 angelforgod_18 says, "yea"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "As long as we have pride in us, we can't really understand God's grace."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "That's why it is so hard for someone caught up in legalism to be saved."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "for them to focus on God and not try doing it themselves?"

JackieO71 says, "good question"

 angelforgod_18 says, "i thnk we dont get rid on someone's pride, we get rid of our own pride?"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "I have NO pride, but my hubby does!!"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "right, Lidya.  We can only get rid of our own."

 seashell_71 says, "I hear you star...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "lol, Donna"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "and he is a Sunday School Teacher"

 angelforgod_18 says, "no one has no pride."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "I agree, Lidya.  ALL sin is pride based."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Deb, he doesn't pray to thank God for his food or anything,"

 seashell_71 says, "for me, it seems that the more I try to be the best, the worse I am....."

 angelforgod_18 says, "neither my dad"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "but yet he says that he is secure in his relationship with God."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "How can that be?"

 angelforgod_18 says, "right donna, just like my dad"

 angelforgod_18 says, "& who can tell him he is wrong? No one"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "that really bothers me!"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Donna, there are many like that....sounds like a Pharisee."

ParepidemosOAMpastor is back.

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Unfortunately, we can't do anything about anyone else's pride."

 sarah0806 says, "wb pare"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "wb Papa Doug! "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Except help to expose it."

 angelforgod_18 says, "wb doug"

 seashell_71 says, "WB DAD"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "I have tried so I guess I need to leave it in God's hands and just pray right"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "thanks. "

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "yw"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Yes, Donna, but we are here to help each other grow and sometimes we need other people to help us to see our own pride."

JackieO71 says, "yes"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Pride is a distortion of the concept of man's dignity."

 angelforgod_18 says, " yea"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "I am going to ask him why he is secure in his relationship"

 seashell_71 says, "amen to that deb."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "When we think more highly of ourselves than we are worth, then we are distorting the dignity that we have....and it becomes pride."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Donna, ask him what he bases his security on?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Is it because of what he DOES for God?  Or because of grace?"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "good one Deb, I like that"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Pride comes in so many flavors.....we find a lot of ways to be proud."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "I don't think so Angel, we need to let someone know if they are thinking falsely"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "or are using false doctrine"

 angelforgod_18 says, "i know, but it depends on the person "

 angelforgod_18 says, "not everyone can be confronted that way, my dad for example"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "If we really love someone, we are more committed to challenging them to a better relationship with God than to making sure they are happy with us."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "yes, but we are supposed to guide them"

 angelforgod_18 says, "i know donna"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Lidya, I agree....there are different ways to confront different people."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "guess lots of people dont reallyyyy love me then"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Because you are under the authority of your dad, it is much trickier for you."

 angelforgod_18 says, "i think i cannot confront him"

 angelforgod_18 says, "i better just pray"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Not really confront, Lidya, but expose."

 angelforgod_18 says, "yea, "

 seashell_71 says, "and as a father, it is hard for him to see that he can learn from a child...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Sometimes it's just the way that we handle things ourselves."

 angelforgod_18 says, "sometimes i cant pick the right word"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Your life is more of a testimony to him sometimes, Lidya, than any words you might say."

JackieO71 says, "I have a hard time talking to hubby also"

 angelforgod_18 says, "amen deb"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "It's not a matter of making them sit down and listen, but just a comment here and there."

 angelforgod_18 says, "yea"

 seashell_71 says, "I know that feeling Jackie..."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Just saying, That's a rather prideful thing to say, might be just enough to shock them into thinking about it."

 angelforgod_18 says, "oh i wont dare saying that "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Think of it this way, folks."

 angelforgod_18 says, "dads"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "If you and I were sitting at a restaurant having lunch and we sat and talked for an hour...."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "listening"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "And then I got up and did some shopping and all and a couple of hours later went into the bathroom and saw spinach on my teeth..."

 seashell_71 says, "hey angel, me and my dad really didn't see eye to eye for a long time, but eventually, we both came around, and it was awesome..."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "I'd probably think, Wow, you're not much of a friend for letting me run around like that all day long and not telling me!"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "right"

sarah0806 is away (Auto-Away)

 angelforgod_18 says, "shesell, i still need his financial support, so i better be good to him"

sarah0806 is back.

 sarah0806 says, "."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But the reason we don't tell someone is because we're afraid they'll get upset with us."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "raises her hand!!!"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But a REAL friend will be honest with us, IN LOVE."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "yes?"

 angelforgod_18 says, "yes deb"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "yes"

  hurtandrejected21 says, "keeps quite"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "oh, just acknowledging it, Donna?  "

 seashell_71 says, "I felt the same angel, but you know what, he never ever stopped loving me, even through all we went through...."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "no, knew it "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "(you know me, the teacher in me thought maybe you had to use the little girl's room)  "

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "rofl"

 sarah0806 says, "lol"

 seashell_71 says, "can I have a pass teacher???"

 angelforgod_18 says, "i know seashell, but this is Asia, & my dad is Asian with the culture"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Would you all like to hear one last twist on the pride issue?"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "sure"

 angelforgod_18 says, "what"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Self-contempt is a kind of pride."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "what?"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Doug you are awfully quiet!"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Actually, it's a type of legalism...."

 angelforgod_18 says, "what is self contempt?"

 seashell_71 says, "well, my daddy was a stubborn irish man.....but in the end, I was always his little girl, even at 28!!"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "He's PMing people."

  hurtandrejected21 says, "he is helping me keep quite"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "oh okay, just checking to see if he was okay "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Self-contempt is when you put yourself down all the time and show hatred to yourself."

 angelforgod_18 says, "oh ya i agree deb,"

seashell_71 is away (be right back)

  hurtandrejected21 says, "HAS THAT"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "raises her hand again!!  Deb you have to stop this."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "In fact, severe contempt displays itself in cutting or bulimia or things like that."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "God is really stepping on my toes tonite"

  hurtandrejected21 says, "YEP"

  hurtandrejected21 says, "DID THAT TONIGHT"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "But you know what about self-contempt?  It's really legalism."

 angelforgod_18 says, "i did that deb"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "no way, please"

 angelforgod_18 says, "i was in it, severly"

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