AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "nods head in agreement"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Amen"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "When someone says "Jesus" we need to make sure of their definition of that word."

WillSeeker says, "couldn't Judas be example of pre-destination? Jesus said, "None has been lost except the one DOOMED to destruction...""

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Predestination is not what many think it is."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor is going to wait because Pare wants to tackle this one.

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "what is it?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Doug's really getting into talking about predestination lately."

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "looks at Doug"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "okay, waiting"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Ok, if pm's are out of the way. "

wvstarwolf_oamcit listens.

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "predestination according to how some explain it is, God chooses before the foundations of the earth who will and who will not enter into heaven."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor snitches a piece of Pare's candy while waiting.

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "lol"

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "wants a piece what kind?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor but carefully chews on the left side and not the right.

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "um...toffee..."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "I beleive in predestination from the view that God being God, he knows who will and who wil not accept his plan of salvation."

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "(yummie )"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "or he would not be God."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "hi, Tina"

 sarah0806 says, "hi moon"

moongirl312 says, "Hi"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Hi Tina"

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "hi Tina"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "Doug I believe that also"

moongirl312 says, "I know that I am too late for bible study"

moongirl312 says, "I just wanted to say hello"

 sarah0806 says, "that makes sense"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "well, we're on the topic of predestination now. "

moongirl312 says, "oh ok"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Hi Tina."

moongirl312 says, "hi"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "there are two basic schools of thought on this, and it gets quite indepth."

WillSeeker says, "sorry Deb"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Many who teach predestination, though, say that either we are or aren't predestined. But that means that it really doesn't matter then what we do because God already made the choice for us."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "It's okay, Tammy. I don't mind one little bit. "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Extreme predestionists do not beleive in free will of man to choose."

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "listens"

WillSeeker says, "Steady yourself, Doug...actually agree with you on something"

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "lol"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "falls over. "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "lol"

 sarah0806 says, "lol"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "lol"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "I belive in the free will of man to choose."

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "agrees"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever will........"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "By the way, these two camps are often called Calvinist and Arminian"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "correct Deb."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor puts the gold star on her forehead.

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "lol"

 sarah0806 says, "is the arminian the free will or vice versa?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "but, both camps are out to lunch when you follow both camps to the logical conclusions of one another. "

 sarah0806 says, "ok"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Arminian believes that we have free will....but the problem is that their conclusion is that when we sin, we lose our salvation so we have to always keep asking forgiveness so we will make it to heaven okay."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "on the other hand, with predestination, in my opinion, what is the purpose of evangelizing if all who are going to enter into heaven are already chosen."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "So, from the standpoint of Calvanism, they beleive in eternal security."

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "listening"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "well of course if your already predestioned to go to heaven. "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "so, this is the balance I beleive, man has free will to choose, and those who choose eternal life, have eternal security."

 sarah0806 says, "wb Deb"

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "wb Deb"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "thanks...server cut me off....hmmm...wonder why Doug got to stay on...."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "wb Deb, but isn't our name in the book of life when we are born?"

 britt_ania says, "server couldnt get a word in edgewise"

 sarah0806 says, "wb Deb"

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "wb Deb"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "thanks...server cut me off....hmmm...wonder why Doug got to stay on...."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "wb Deb, but isn't our name in the book of life when we are born?"

 britt_ania says, "server couldnt get a word in edgewise"

WillSeeker says, "WHAT?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Yes Donna, I beleive that."

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "lol"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "What what Tammy? "

 sarah0806 says, "so He knows if u will believe or not, but u still choose?"

 sarah0806 says, "right?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Yes Sarah, that does not circumvent free will just because God knows the future."

WillSeeker says, "Just thinking this might be interesting angle on infant baptism.....can you tell me verses?"

 sarah0806 says, "i think i got it "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Whoah Tammy, this is not infant baptism for salvation."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "let me explain."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Sin is seperates man from God."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Jeus paid the penalty for the sins of man, past, present and future."

ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "giong all the way back to Adam and thouroughout eternity."

WillSeeker thinks I'm going to get kicked out for bringing up other subjects

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "So, every person's name is in the Lambs book of life, Because Jesus removed that offense."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "not at all Tammy. "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "like questions, this is how we learn."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Now, the difference between those who enter heaven and those who do not is, what?"

WillSeeker says, "faith"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Tammy, I think this is great! I'm a teacher and I LOVE to see people who ask questions!"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "kinda Tammy"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "if we chose God or not"

WillSeeker says, "acceptance vs. unacceptance"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "kinda Donna. "

moongirl312 says, "I am going to go"

moongirl312 says, "not into this tonight"

moongirl312 says, "sorry, having a really bad day"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "okay, Tina....hugs!"

moongirl312 says, "bye everyone, have a good night"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Those who either accept or reject the plan of salvation God provided through the person of Jesus."

moongirl312 says, "thanks Deb"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Good night Tina, God bless and hugs."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "God Bless Tina...hugs"

moongirl312 says, "thanks Doug, goodnight all"

moongirl312 says, "thanks Donna"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Those who receive Jesus into their hearts, their sins are covered by the blood of Jesus never to be brought to mind again."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "those who reject Jesus, their sins are not covered, and their names will be blotted out of the Lambs bok of life."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "book"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "make sense?"

 sarah0806 says, "what is the OT law?"

 britt_ania says, "they made sacrifices to atone for their sins"

 sarah0806 says, "oh ok"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "correct Britt"

 britt_ania says, "but when Jesus died he was the ultimate"

WillSeeker says, "No...this is what I always thought, too, but if Jesus paid for all sins....PAST, present, and future......should not matter if the made sacrifices for their sins or not"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "there sins were forgiven through faith, believing God."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "The covering of their sins were temporal until the perfect eternal sacrifice was made through Jesus Tammy. "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "freeze check"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "rats, ate my words again."

 britt_ania says, "not froze here just watchng"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Salvation in the OT was obtained by believing God."

WillSeeker says, "Again, what I have always believed, but i don't see how this jives with Jesus dying for ALL sins of EVERYONE....even PAST sins"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Read the faith chapter in Hebrews chapter 14 I beleive it is."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Hebrews 11. "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Tammy, all of the sacrifices in the OT were a picture of the coming of the eternal living sacrificial Lamb of God."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "They were looking towards the cross through faith, and we look back to the cross with faith."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "When did Jeus die on the cross? "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Jesus"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "??"

 sarah0806 says, "dunno.."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "anybiody talking?"

WillSeeker says, "So, is it correct to say that you believe that those who died before the coming of Jesus and had faith....i.e. made sacrifices....."

WillSeeker says, "just sec...."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "2000 years ago?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "uh....33 AD?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "yea chalk. "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "were any of us born yet?"

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "nope"

WillSeeker says, "wouldn't you know....I thought 32 :-)"

 sarah0806 says, "no"

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "no"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "So, if the sins were not paid for the past, present and future, were out of luck. "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "maybe Pare was born...he IS pretty old... "

 sarah0806 says, "LoL"

WillSeeker says, "......(sure hope they didn't miss that last sacrifice before they died)....."

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "I will brb, need to get off so hubby can call me on his break. Need to give him a list for the store"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "this is the future, do you belive our sins were paid for two thousand years ago? "

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "ok donna"

WillSeeker says, "No...for us all that matters is present and future"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "ok Donna, hugs. :O)"

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "yep Doug "

 wvstarwolf_oamcit says, "brb"

 sarah0806 says, "yep"

WillSeeker says, "yes"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Then that has to mean all sins past, present and future, Jesus did for the sins of alll for all of eternity past and future."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "did=died. "

WillSeeker says, "Can I ask a question?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "sure Tammy, "

WillSeeker says, "Nevermind...."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "go ahead, Tammy"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "that is the question? "

WillSeeker says, "ughh...almost hate to go here, but....when does an infant sin?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "When they know it is a sin."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "age of acountability."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "but that age varies from child to child."

WillSeeker says, "ok....so, if they die a minute after death, they don't sin, is that what you believe?"

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "I've got to go guys love you all"

 sarah0806 says, "bye servant"

WillSeeker says, "take care, Marcie"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "and would never be before they could understand the forgiveness of sins and salvation through Jesus either."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Ok Marcie, hugs and love you sis. "

AServant4Him_OAMCIT Hugs my special friend britt_ania I thank God for you everyday... You mean so much to me!!!!!

AServant4Him_OAMCIT Hugs my special friend Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor I thank God for you everyday... You mean so much to me!!!!!

AServant4Him_OAMCIT Hugs my special friend mcfadden_h I thank God for you everyday... You mean so much to me!!!!!

AServant4Him_OAMCIT Hugs my special friend ParepidemosOAMpastor I thank God for you everyday... You mean so much to me!!!!!

AServant4Him_OAMCIT Hugs my special friend sarah0806 I thank God for you everyday... You mean so much to me!!!!!

AServant4Him_OAMCIT Hugs my special friend WillSeeker I thank God for you everyday... You mean so much to me!!!!!

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "May God's blessings go with you, Marcie!"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "brb, "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "goDeb's. "

 AServant4Him_OAMCIT says, "night"

 sarah0806 says, "so all children will go to heaven?"

WillSeeker says, "so...when Bible says none are without sin....is that only because they are born as "fallen" humans?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Yes, if you read in Genesis 8, it says that we have sinful hearts from childhood."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, ""every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood.""

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Genesis 8:21"

WillSeeker says, "I knew my boys were evil! :-) TOTALLY kidding"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "smiles"

WillSeeker says, "hence, Jesus died not only to cover all sins but all sinful hearts as well?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Yes, He covered it all, Tammy"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Tammy, this also kind of blows the concept of man being basically good. Psychology has a bad root on that one."

WillSeeker says, "definitely agree"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "also, this blows predestination full of holes as well."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, so who would He have to predestine from?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "right...how does He choose if we are predestined?"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "the answer, he predestioned all man kind to receive salvation, but also knew most would reject his plan for salvation."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "eeny meenie miney moe?"

 sarah0806 says, "lol"

WillSeeker says, "Whoa...I'm not arguing with you on predestination...agree exactly with what you said"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "Oh I know, just giving the reasons behind as to why it is not a correct doctrine. "

WillSeeker says, "got fog"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "I blab a lot, the preacher blood in me. "

WillSeeker says, "ago"

 sarah0806 says, "..."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Hmmm...that was odd."

 sarah0806 says, "yeah.."

 sarah0806 says, "(agrees)"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, ""...." me too sarah. "

 sarah0806 says, "lol"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Well, Sarah, so, tell me what you are wanting to do with the mission field. Do you have some place in particular you want to go?"

 sarah0806 says, "hmm...not really"

 sarah0806 says, "i just want to tell ppl about God"

 sarah0806 says, "it doesn't matter where "

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "That is a terrific attitude Sarah."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "we begin our mission field right at home,right where God wants us. "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Sarah, there are a lot of good groups to start checking out. Have you ever heard of YWAM? Youth With a Mission?"

 sarah0806 says, "no never heard of it"

 sarah0806 says, "do they have a website?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "probably. I'm not sure what the URL is."

 sarah0806 says, "oh ok"

 sarah0806 says, "i'm just not sure if it's what God wants me to do w/ the rest of my life...I mean I think it would be awesome "

 sarah0806 says, "do u know what i mean?"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Sarah, they have summer teams and such that would be a good way to see if that is where God is leading you."

 sarah0806 says, "yeah"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "When you are on the field, you will know whether it's what God wants or not."

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "The important thing though is to find a mission group that believes the same as you do."

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "I have an apointment so I better get going."

 sarah0806 says, "k bye pare"

 ParepidemosOAMpastor says, "good night Sarah, God's blessings little sis. "

 sarah0806 says, "thanx"

 sarah0806 says, ""

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "lol, I just turned around and said bye to him. "

 sarah0806 says, "lol"

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "Sarah, I can't remember. What part of the country are you from?"

 sarah0806 says, "florida"

 sarah0806 says, "sunshine state "

 Chalkbrd_OAM_Counselor says, "okay."

 sarah0806 says, "i would probably have to find a mission near me"